14 replies to this topic

[Big Nake]

I had a "gold lager" fermenting last week and I read someplace that removing the ultra-bitter hop resins off the top of the fermentation foam can remove harsh, overly bitter flavors from the beer. Clearly, this is not something that should be done for most beers so I assume most homebrewers have not done this. Neither had I for 11 straight years of homebrewing. But I did last week and I also did it again tonight on a Mexican Vienna Lager that is currently at high kraeusen. When I was done (removing the resins with a sanitized SS spoon) and had the primary covered and back in the fridge, I noticed I had a blob of the resins on my finger. How bitter can it be? I thought. Holy fark is it bitter. It may take awhile to get this taste out of my mouth. I only mention this for those who have something fermenting that they would like to see smooth/smoother... cream ale, blonde, American Wheat, Hefe, Kolsch, American Lager, pilsner, etc. Anyone else done this?

[No Party JKor]

Let us know the results. I don't know why the hop resins on the Krausen would be any more bitter than any other hop resin in there. Maybe removing hops, period, is what is causing a perceived 'smoothing' of bitterness.

[Big Nake]

There was a BYO article on "American Lagers" and some of the things you can do to keep the beer as smooth as possible and the instructions were... If you ferment in a bucket or cylindro-conical fermenter, open the fermenter up at high kräusen and skim the darkest, resiny bits of hop “gunk” from the kräusen with a sanitized spoon. This removes some of the harshest bittering compounds and leaves a smoother tasting final product. (It also lowers your IBU level slightly.) I also remember an interview with Fritz Maytag where he described a prank that they would play on "the new guy" at the brewery. They would ask him, "Have you tasted the fermentation foam? You have to try it, it's delicious!" and the guy would try it and spit it out, etc. ha-ha, point and laugh, etc. So it occurs to me that removing this stuff may be a good idea on a beer where you don't necessarily want that harsh bitterness.

[No Party JKor]

I see where your going, but both of those pieces of evidence are anecdotal. Is there some data that shows the concentration of 'harsh' bittering compounds in those hop bits is exceptionally high, or that they even make it into the beer? Of course if you eat a chunk of hop sludge it's going to taste exceedingly bitter, which in turn would make it seem harsh. I think that would be true if you tasted hop matter of any sort.

[positiveContact]

I see where your going, but both of those pieces of evidence are anecdotal. Is there some data that shows the concentration of 'harsh' bittering compounds in those hop bits is exceptionally high, or that they even make it into the beer? Of course if you eat a chunk of hop sludge it's going to taste exceedingly bitter, which in turn would make it seem harsh. I think that would be true if you tasted hop matter of any sort.

I agree with this. I say if you want less IBUs just use less hops in the first place

[No Party JKor]

I'm not necessarily refuting the claim, but I think it's pretty well accepted that leaving hop matter in the fermentation increases IBUs versus removing all hop matter. I think it would be easy to convince yourself in a side by side tasting of two of the same beers, one with a few more IBU, that the one with less IBU tastes 'smoother'. It may be that the anecdotes are 100% correct, but it's not enough for me to believe without chemical analysis or blind tasting of two beers with the SAME final IBU, where one had the hop matter skimmed.

[djinkc]

I don't open my fermenters during fermentation unless there is a problem. Besides that the nasty bitter gunk is always on the sides where the krausen dropped. With all due respect to the BYO author - I think it's a waste of time and possibly introducing other problems. It's their beer though............

[djinkc]

I don't open my fermenters during fermentation unless there is a problem. Besides that the nasty bitter gunk is always on the sides where the krausen dropped. With all due respect to the BYO author - I think it's a waste of time and possibly introducing other problems. It's their beer though............

[djinkc]

I don't open my fermenters during fermentation unless there is a problem. Besides that the nasty bitter gunk is always on the sides where the krausen dropped. With all due respect to the BYO author - I think it's a waste of time and possibly introducing other problems. It's their beer though............

[Mya]

wow3 posts

[Big Nake]

Here was something I dug up from Papazian... "...The kreusen is topped with a very bitter and brown resinous scum . . . there is an advantage to the removal of this resin before it falls back into the fermentation: There will be less of a bitter 'bite' to your beer . . . 'fusel oils' are also removed. Fusel oils are a by-product of fermentation and contribute to what are often referred to as "beer headaches." If the removal of hop resins during the kraeusen stage can be done under sanitary conditions then it is advised to do so." Again, in the 11 years I have homebrewed, I have only done this on my last 2 beers because they were the type of beers where this may be a benefit. This is more of an experiment than anything else. If I like the result, I may carefully do it again for certain beers only. If I were making an IPA, Pale Ale, Red Ale, etc., I wouldn't bother with this. Again, just one of the million things we run across as homebrewers... like olive oil for aeration or aluminum vs. stainless. Cheers.

With all due respect to the BYO author - I think it's a waste of time and possibly introducing other problems. It's their beer though............

It was written by Chris Colby.

[denny]

Kai Troester has remarked that German brewers remove the "braun hefe" and I believe he's done some experiments with it also.

[EWW]

Wouldn't a homebrew version of the Burton Union system (i.e blowoff tube top cropping) accomplish the same thing with less risk of contamination.

[Mya]

Wouldn't a homebrew version of the Burton Union system (i.e blowoff tube top cropping) accomplish the same thing with less risk of contamination.

i always ferment in 6 gallon glass carboys and most of this resin is blown off by the 1-1/4 blowoff tube

[Big Nake]

I do think that a lot of it can be blown off and I also assume that some amount of it will stick to the sides of the carboy. I have been fermenting in plastic primaries for a long time so it's easy for me to pop the top, pull a stainless spoon out of a bucket of Starsan and just remove as much as I can get.