38 replies to this topic

[djinkc]

Philaelphia Swankey was brought up in another post recently.I always thought that a Philadelphia Swankey was close to what was described, but anise had to be in it - actually a defining characteristic. One of the reasons I haven't brewed one - really don't like anise most of the time. I will sometime, simply because it is one of the truly original USA beers. I can only think of three. Kentucky Common (Kommon), Steam Beer, and Philadelpha Swankey. I guess Cream Ale could be in there too - sort of.If someone can come up with more - please post. DIPA and other big beers don't count........... Originals from the states. Of course one could argue about Steam/Cali Common not really being original too. Still, interesting to me. I'm giving a talk in a month about Steam/Cali Common and would like to give a quick review of the other All - American beers. Thoughts?

[Big Nake]

I was going to say Cream Ale too. What about Classic American Pilsner? I know it was more of a Pre-Pro thing, but I wonder how "American" it really is. But I think that Cream Ale just has to be in there because it was as if someone wanted to make a "pilsner" style but didn't have the refrigeration or whatever. Cheers.

[Mya]

Classic American Pilsner AFAIK is basically a slightly Amercanized version of it's Easter European namesake.Cream Ale I would vote for more as an original than CAP

[MtnBrewer]

I guess it all depends on where you want to draw the line on what counts as "original". Certainly the ones you listed are, with the possible exception of steam beer. To me steam beer is simply an Americanized altbier. You might could argue that cream ale is an American Kolsch too. That's nothing to be ashamed of. There's not much new under the sun and there aren't many beers in the world that aren't derivatives of something originally brewed in Germany, Belgium or the British Isles. Sahti is the only one that quickly comes to mind aside from the ones listed above.While not really a recognized style, chile beer might be one to consider. It's very popular around here; everybody brews one when the peppers come in and everybody seems to have their own take on it. There are starting to be some pretty decent commercial examples too although it remains mostly in the domain of the homebrewer. I've never seen one brewed from outside of the US and in fact I've seen few outside of the Western US.

[djinkc]

I guess it all depends on where you want to draw the line on what counts as "original". Certainly the ones you listed are, with the possible exception of steam beer. To me steam beer is simply an Americanized altbier. You might could argue that cream ale is an American Kolsch too. That's nothing to be ashamed of. There's not much new under the sun and there aren't many beers in the world that aren't derivatives of something originally brewed in Germany, Belgium or the British Isles. Sahti is the only one that quickly comes to mind aside from the ones listed above.While not really a recognized style, chile beer might be one to consider. It's very popular around here; everybody brews one when the peppers come in and everybody seems to have their own take on it. There are starting to be some pretty decent commercial examples too although it remains mostly in the domain of the homebrewer. I've never seen one brewed from outside of the US and in fact I've seen few outside of the Western US.

I'm trying to draw the line at American. Cream Ale and CAP are a variation AFAIK, but that can be argued either way IMO. Especially the pre-prohibition stuff. I still think Steam is is such a cross the line from from an Altbier that it should be there - but as I said in the OP, maybe..... Hey, thisty miners out there during the Gold Rush. Had to get them some beer fast - but from what I have read - probably first generation German brewers. Sahti - thought that was Scandavian???Chile beer should be there, thanks. It has made it around here, only a little though. I brewed one several months ago. Underwhelming since the Habs had me concerned that I would torch it. Kolsch vs. Cream Ale - good point but I would say............ dunno. Corn was around here to brew with then but, it was just another starch source to sub for a variation.Just a subject I like to toss out there every few years. Fun to talk about it.dj

[Big Nake]

I remember reading somewhere that Steam Beer is a truly American innovation because of the yeast and the fact that no one had used it before the west coast common beers were made. I understand that refrigeration was non-existent on the west coast at the time and so a yeast that would deliver lager-like qualities in warmer conditions was required. That seems pretty damn American to me. I agree the style can be similar to an Altbier, but the yeast makes it a completely different animal.

[ChicagoWaterGuy]

Chicha from South America.

[armagh]

https://www.huffingt...815006.htmlThis may be a bit off topic as it does not qualify as a "style." Jefferson apparently left no recipe behind but the various articles reporting on this suggest his beer would have relied heavily on corn and wheat.

[MtnBrewer]

Sahti - thought that was Scandavian???

It is...Finnish actually. The point I was making is that nearly every beer out there is some variation of a beer originally brewed in Germany, Belgium or England. Sahti is one of the few exceptions.

[MtnBrewer]

I remember reading somewhere that Steam Beer is a truly American innovation because of the yeast and the fact that no one had used it before the west coast common beers were made. I understand that refrigeration was non-existent on the west coast at the time and so a yeast that would deliver lager-like qualities in warmer conditions was required. That seems pretty damn American to me. I agree the style can be similar to an Altbier, but the yeast makes it a completely different animal.

The yeast is why I think it's an altbier.

[Big Nake]

The yeast is why I think it's an altbier.

I get a completely different flavor from 810/2112 than I do from 1007/029/036 (I always forget which WL yeast is the Alt yeast). I realize that all of these yeasts can ferment down to about 55° but 2112/810 is very distinct to my tastebuds.

[davelew]

Classic American Pilsner AFAIK is basically a slightly Amercanized version of it's Easter European namesake.Cream Ale I would vote for more as an original than CAP

I think the 6-row barley and the corn make a CAP very different from anything that came out of Plzen or Munich, not to mention the American hops as opposed to noble hops.Especially with the corn flavor, you don't need a very refined palate to tell a CAP from a Pilsener.

[MakeMeHoppy]

I can't locate the webpages anymore, but last year was the Champlain/Hudson quad centennial. Part of the activities were to recreate the beer they likely made back then from some 'recipes' where were just a basic listing of some ingredients. I do remember talk of spruce tips to bitter instead of hops.

[drewseslu]

Fresh/Wet/Green hop beers.

[EWW]

Cream ale and steam are as American as bourbon. Included in my book.

[davelew]

If someone can come up with more - please post. DIPA and other big beers don't count........... Originals from the states. Of course one could argue about Steam/Cali Common not really being original too. Still, interesting to me. I'm giving a talk in a month about Steam/Cali Common and would like to give a quick review of the other All - American beers. Thoughts?

If you want your list to be complete, I believe that Lite Beer is a thoroughly American invention (not that we should be too proud of that).

[denny]

American pale ale? American IPA? American stout? American barleywine? What about those? Are they too derivative? I'd argue that they're distinctly different than other versions.

[positiveContact]

American pale ale? American IPA? American stout? American barleywine? What about those? Are they too derivative? I'd argue that they're distinctly different than other versions.

I think that's the argument. I'm not sure about the answer though.

[Big Nake]

It sounds to me like DJ is talking about beers that were developed here or that are distinctively American. I agree that there are "American" versions of beers that have been brewed in other countries and I also would agree that those beers (at least they way we make them) is distinctively American. But those styles were not born here like Cream Ale, Steam Beer, etc. I know that practically every country on the globe has a "gold lager" which was derived in one way or another from German or Czech Pilsners. Some of these are more like the real things and many of them have been watered down just like American Light Lagers. But did "LIGHT" beer originate here or did a bunch of other countries do it first? I have heard that Corona has been brewed in Mexico since 1920. So does Mexico get the award for creating a high-adjunct, yellow & fizzy beer? Let's give that accolade to Mexico.

[djinkc]

Chicha from South America.

I knew someone would reply with Chicha as soon as I posted. I was thinking more North American

If you want your list to be complete, I believe that Lite Beer is a thoroughly American invention (not that we should be too proud of that).

Good point, but for some reason that one didn't occur to me when I thought "beer"

American pale ale? American IPA? American stout? American barleywine? What about those? Are they too derivative? I'd argue that they're distinctly different than other versions.

To me, these are a variation. Certainly N. American but just a twist from stuff across the pond. I think that can be argued either way.

It sounds to me like DJ is talking about beers that were developed here or that are distinctively American. I agree that there are "American" versions of beers that have been brewed in other countries and I also would agree that those beers (at least they way we make them) is distinctively American. But those styles were not born here like Cream Ale, Steam Beer, ...........

Basically that's what I was considering. I guess I really need to add Cream Ale and CAP to the list. Bet there are some others out there too.

Edited by djinkc, 30 March 2011 - 03:50 PM.