28 replies to this topic

[ANUSTART]

After trying stellarbrew's beers from the beer pass, I've decided to set out on a crusade to fix my head retention problems. His beers had a thick head that barely diminished at all. I doubt there's an issue with my ingredients, so I'll go over my process:

[*]Crush grain with Barley crusher while heating up strike water and HLT water.[*]Dough in, usually mash at 148 - 154 for an hour to 90 mins. Sometimes stir at 1/2 way, sometimes stir every 20 mins, sometimes no stir.[*]Mash tun is a 10 gal round igloo with perforated SS false bottom.[*]I've used 5.2 stabilizer in the past if I remember to put it in. Doesnt seem to affect anything.[*]Sparge water is usually 175 to 180 at the HLT. I imagine it drops 5 to 10 degrees in the 18" tube to the spinny thing for fly sparging.[*]I usually sparge for about 45 mins, trying to keep flow rates equal.[*]Stir it up, take hydro reading for efficiency calc, as it's getting up to boiling.[*]Boil somewhat vigorously (nothing to compare to) in a keggle. The boil is usually violent enough to have the waves jump up 2 to 3 inches.[*]Once it comes to a boil, I usually have to battle the boilover for the first 5 minutes of boiling. After that it settles.[*]I almost always do 75 minute boils, unless the recipe calls for 90. I usually boil for 15, then do the 60 minute addition.[*]Immersion chiller goes in at 15 mins, along with yeast nutrient if I have it (1/2 tsp wyeast nutrient, but i'm out of it now).[*]Supermoss 1/4 tsp at 10 mins[*]Chill down to about 75 to 80 dF. Usually takes about 20 mins.[*]Drain kettle into sanitized bucket, take hydro reading. I have a SS braid that makes a loop hooked up to a T connector to the bulkhead on the inside. The reason I did it this way is so the chiller can fit right in the middle of loop. I may change this someday as it leaves 1/4 to 1/2 gal of wort behind. It does strain the wort through the whole hops, which makes for pretty clear wort going into the fermenter.[*]Pitch yeast, usually sprinkle US-05 on top and close it up.[*]I usually ferment in the mid to high 60s for a week or two, then transfer to a keg for secondary until I have space to serve. Then I'll transfer again to the serving keg.[/list]Anything glaringly bad in that process? Where should I focus on improving head retention? My first thoughts are the vigorousness of the boil or straining through the hops to the fermenter. Maybe I should keep some of that protein in?Wow, this is an ugly post. Maybe bullets will make it look better.

[Deerslyr]

[*]Supermoss 1/4 tsp at 10 mins

This is the only thing I can think of. It may be taking too many protiens out of the wort, which (from my understanding) is where the excellent head retention comes from. Thinking back on my own brews and when I used Irish Moss, it sticks out in my mind that those beers don't have particularly great retention. I'll be bottling a Hefe this weekend that I did not utilize IM, but then that had 50% wheat... so not really fair. Which leads me to the next point.And don't discount the recipe. Are you using anything that is known to aid head formation/retention? Or are you omitting something that might aid. For a while, I was tossing in 1/4 to 1/2 pound of torrified wheat to help out. IIRC, flaked oats and flaked wheat would help too. I don't have access to my library right now, so maybe someone else can chime in on known ingredients to help head formation/retention.I don't think it's a process problem... Your process looks fine/standard.

[ANUSTART]

And don't discount the recipe. Are you using anything that is known to aid head formation/retention? Or are you omitting something that might aid. For a while, I was tossing in 1/4 to 1/2 pound of torrified wheat to help out. IIRC, flaked oats and flaked wheat would help too.

I'm thinking it's got to be independent of the recipe or ingredients because I get the same quickly dissipating head regardless of the recipe. I've tried adding certain things (wheat, oats, etc), but it never made a difference. The grain I use is the stuff from northcountry malt, bought in bulk, TF, Best Malz, Franco Belges, etc. but I've also used the stuff from the LHBS. No difference in head retention.Maybe I'll skip the supermoss next time around and see what happens.Another thought. I've been using Iodophor since I started brewing. I have a huge bottle of the stuff that never seems to run out. I wonder if that could make a difference. All my kegs are cleaned with oxyclean soak for day to a month (if I forget) then thoroughly rinsed and sanitized with the Iodophor solution before being filled.

[davelew]

Do you ever wash your bottles (or any other equipment) with soap? Soap can be a real head-retention killer.Other than that, there are certain malts that boots head retention, and my experience has been that certain yeasts have better head retention. I've also heard of blowoff tubes reducing head retention, but that hasn't been my personal experience.

I'm thinking it's got to be independent of the recipe or ingredients because I get the same quickly dissipating head regardless of the recipe. I've tried adding certain things (wheat, oats, etc), but it never made a difference. The grain I use is the stuff from northcountry malt, bought in bulk, TF, Best Malz, Franco Belges, etc. but I've also used the stuff from the LHBS. No difference in head retention.Maybe I'll skip the supermoss next time around and see what happens.Another thought. I've been using Iodophor since I started brewing. I have a huge bottle of the stuff that never seems to run out. I wonder if that could make a difference. All my kegs are cleaned with oxyclean soak for day to a month (if I forget) then thoroughly rinsed and sanitized with the Iodophor solution before being filled.

[denny]

Fermentation plays a major role in head formation and retention. Read this...it includes some tests to help you diagnose the problem.Beer Foam

Edited by denny, 05 June 2009 - 12:29 PM.

[CaptRon]

I've also heard of blowoff tubes reducing head retention, but that hasn't been my personal experience.

Blowoff tubes affecting head retention? That doesn't make sense to me as it doesn't remove anything from the beer it is just a bigger mouth for the CO2/Krausen to escape from. If the blowoff tube were to cause a problem, I would think that the guys that do the open fermentation would have similiar/worse problems with head retention.I would suggest to make sure that you are rinsing the kegs/bottles extremely well to make sure that there is no residue from the oxy clean or soap or whatever you are using to clean with. I seriously doubt that the Iodophor would be a contributor, as I use that on my bottles and everything without rinse. I am having carbonation problems right now, but I am battling getting carbonation on a couple of my brews - the ones that have carbed up appropriate do hold their head high.

[DaBearSox]

Blowoff tubes affecting head retention? That doesn't make sense to me as it doesn't remove anything from the beer it is just a bigger mouth for the CO2/Krausen to escape from. If the blowoff tube were to cause a problem, I would think that the guys that do the open fermentation would have similiar/worse problems with head retention.I would suggest to make sure that you are rinsing the kegs/bottles extremely well to make sure that there is no residue from the oxy clean or soap or whatever you are using to clean with. I seriously doubt that the Iodophor would be a contributor, as I use that on my bottles and everything without rinse. I am having carbonation problems right now, but I am battling getting carbonation on a couple of my brews - the ones that have carbed up appropriate do hold their head high.

When stuff gets blown off in the BO tube you are losing some of the protein compounds that aid head retention

[ANUSTART]

Fermentation plays a major role in head formation and retention. Read this...it includes some tests to help you diagnose the problem.Beer Foam

Good article. I wouldnt have expected fermentation. Based on skimming it, I'd have to say that I have enough proteins, but too many foam breakers. I'll try to ferment cooler. I usually don't make starters, but I also almost never use liquid yeast. Is 1 pack of US-05 for a 5 gallon batch considered underpitching?

[DubbelEntendre]

Good article. I wouldnt have expected fermentation. Based on skimming it, I'd have to say that I have enough proteins, but too many foam breakers. I'll try to ferment cooler. I usually don't make starters, but I also almost never use liquid yeast. Is 1 pack of US-05 for a 5 gallon batch considered underpitching?

Depends on gravity. https://www.mrmalty.com/calc/calc.html

[DaBearSox]

Some commercial brewers use a silicone anti-foam during fermentation to limit foaming during fermentation. This allows them to fill their tanks higher, but also minimizes “wasted” beer foam produced during fermentation. The silicone is later removed via filtration. (Note that beer foam and yeast kraeusen are not the same thing.)

Quote from that article that supports that blowoff tubes will hinder head...only if you are getting a lot of gunk coming out though...I use fermcap-s with every batch and seem to not have a head forming problem.

[ANUSTART]

Depends on gravity. https://www.mrmalty.com/calc/calc.html

Looks like I'm good for up to 1.054 at 5.75 gals or 1.059 for 5.25 gals. If I'm underpitching, it's not by much.I'll focus on fermentation temperature and see if that helps.

[CaptRon]

When stuff gets blown off in the BO tube you are losing some of the protein compounds that aid head retention

While that may be true, then it would be a problem for Sierra Nevada on their Bigfoot too. Check it out:https://www.sierrane...footwindows.wmvThe amount that is going through the Blow off tube shouldn't be enough to cause a problem.

[denny]

I use fermcap-s with every batch and seem to not have a head forming problem.

I have no scientific evidence, but I think my beers have better foam since I started using Fermcap.

[Deerslyr]

Is 1 pack of US-05 for a 5 gallon batch considered underpitching?

Not for a normal gravity beer... Now if you were going high gravity it might. I pitch US05 dry a lot and have no problems with head retention.

[MtnBrewer]

I have no scientific evidence, but I think my beers have better foam since I started using Fermcap.

I've heard a fair amount of anecdotal evidence to support this. And if you think about it, it makes sense because you're not blowing out the kreusen like you might do without the Fermcap.

[stellarbrew]

I can't imagine anything in the process you described that would cause problems with head retention, unless as Deerslyr mentions, it might be caused by the Supermoss. I've never used Supermoss before, but I use a Whirlflock tablet for the last ten minutes of the boil, and it hasn't caused me any problems. Maybe the Supermoss does too good a job of breaking out proteins?

[Deerslyr]

I can't imagine anything in the process you described that would cause problems with head retention, unless as Deerslyr mentions, it might be caused by the Supermoss. I've never used Supermoss before, but I use a Whirlflock tablet for the last ten minutes of the boil, and it hasn't caused me any problems. Maybe the Supermoss does too good a job of breaking out proteins?

I would suggest the OP do the next brew without the moss and if he wants to clear it out later, he can use isinglass or gelatin in combination with a cold crash a few days before bottling and kegging.

[Stout_fan]

Big fan of foam control.I use it:In the starter when boiling (It gets adsorbed in the hot/cold break).In the starter when aerating (It gets adsorbed by the yeast).In the boil kettle (It gets adsorbed in the hot/cold break).In the fermenter (It gets adsorbed by the yeast).It keeps the proteins in your beer, not on the floor.

[ANUSTART]

Viagra.

I've heard of it being used to keep christmas trees green, but I've never heard of it being used in wort. Is it a 15 min addition?