25 replies to this topic

[weave]

Was at a nearby watering hole today and had Ommegang BPA on tap. Oh my. I may have found a new fav. Unfortunately I think it may be a limited release beer. Anywho.... I want to brew something along the same lines. While it was still relatively cold it had that typical Ommegang estery character, but had a wonderful tangerine, citrucy hop aroma and character. As the beer warmed it developed a very bubblegum character. I want this in my next Belgian pale. My question is, what yeast and ferm temp is most likely to give me that deee-licious bubblegum character? My LHBS stocks Wyeast products so that may limit my choices.Yeah, I know. I could try to culture up some from a bottle of BPA. I haven't had much success with that in the past though. I'm not really comfortable trying to set up long term storage of a yeast strain and brewing Belgian styles is more of a Summer thing in my neck of the woods (my basement is <55F right now).

[Big Nake]

I'm probably the last person you want commenting on Belgians (not my thing) but I did make a beer where I was trying to recreate a beer I had made years ago at a Brew-On-Premise. It was a Belgian Dubbel (the original beer I made probably used some sort of neutral, dry ale yeast) and when I attempted to make it at home, I picked a Belgian strain because the recipe was for a Dubbel... Wyeast 1214 Belgian Abbey. I thoroughly ruined the batch (as far as my tastebuds were concerned) because the beer was sooooo bubble-gummy. The warmer you ferment, the more of it you get. I'm sure there are others, but 1214 was really bubble-gummy. Good luck.

[positiveContact]

Was at a nearby watering hole today and had Ommegang BPA on tap. Oh my. I may have found a new fav. Unfortunately I think it may be a limited release beer. Anywho.... I want to brew something along the same lines. While it was still relatively cold it had that typical Ommegang estery character, but had a wonderful tangerine, citrucy hop aroma and character. As the beer warmed it developed a very bubblegum character. I want this in my next Belgian pale. My question is, what yeast and ferm temp is most likely to give me that deee-licious bubblegum character? My LHBS stocks Wyeast products so that may limit my choices.Yeah, I know. I could try to culture up some from a bottle of BPA. I haven't had much success with that in the past though. I'm not really comfortable trying to set up long term storage of a yeast strain and brewing Belgian styles is more of a Summer thing in my neck of the woods (my basement is <55F right now).

I harvested some of their yeast. I stepped up 3 bottles and then combined and stepped that up. Seemed to work pretty well.

[Rick]

Straight from their website:"BPA is brewed with 5 specialty malts and generously- though not excessively -hopped with three hops: Columbus for bittering, three additions of Celeia for aroma, then dry-hopped with Cascade. BPA is primary fermented and bottle-conditioned using our signature house yeast."Doing some research on the Celeia hops, they are a hybrid between Styrian Goldings, Aurora and Slovenian wild hops. So if you can't source the Celeia, I'd go with Styrian Goldings or Aurora.Looking through Brew Like a Monk: All beers start with a base of Pilsner Malt and then a range of amber, aromatic, caramel and dark roasted malts. Ommegang uses a proprietary yeast strain from Belgium. Given that the brewery has ties with Duvel, the yeast might be similar to WLP570 or Wyeast 1388. Standard pitching rate of 1 million cells/mL/degree plato (just use the pitching rate calculator set for an ale.) Fermentation starts at 64 ºF and allowed to free rise to as high at 77 ºF over the 5-7 days of fermentation. After fermentation, the beer is then lowered to 31 ºF for 2 weeks and then filtered. Carbonated to 3.75 vols. All beers are bottle conditioned with primary yeast.Hope that helps you out.

[weave]

I'm not really looking to clone BPA per se (although I certainly wouldn't complain if I brewed something real close to it), I am more looking to find out what yeasts at what ferm temps give off that bubblegum character. Sounds like Ken has seen it with 1214. I am fairly sure Omm's house yeast isn't the same as Duvel but I could be mistaken. Anyone else with info here?

[MtnBrewer]

I'm not really looking to clone BPA per se (although I certainly wouldn't complain if I brewed something real close to it), I am more looking to find out what yeasts at what ferm temps give off that bubblegum character. Sounds like Ken has seen it with 1214. I am fairly sure Omm's house yeast isn't the same as Duvel but I could be mistaken. Anyone else with info here?

I think that's right weave. Ommegang is owned by Moortgat so I think they use the same yeast.

[weave]

I think that's right weave. Ommegang is owned by Moortgat so I think they use the same yeast.

Wouldn't be the first time my assumption has been off base.

[MtnBrewer]

Wouldn't be the first time my assumption has been off base.

That's ok, I misread your post to say that it *is* the same so now I'm really confused.

[Rick]

weave, I think that you are right about Ommegang's yeast not being the same. If I recall correctly, on The Brewing Network they interviewed Randy Thiel, the previous head brewer, and he said that they have a proprietary strain.But I thought this may help you if you just want to find a similar yeast:httpss://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_1GtcV8bEMT8/TWPSwdWP4KI/AAAAAAAAAeo/WnDcV8-6hHg/s640/scan0001.jpg(Hieronymus, 2005, p. 174)httpss://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_1GtcV8bEMT8/TWPS23mLeMI/AAAAAAAAAes/WHBlW1Ir-0Q/s640/scan0002.jpg(Hieronymus, 2005, p. 178)source: Hieronymus, S. (2005). Brew like a monk. Brewer's PublicationEdit:Wyeast 1214 = WLP500 = ChimayWyeast 1388 = WLP570 = DuvelWyeast 1762 = WLP540 = RochefortWyeast 3522 = WLP550 = AchouffeWyeast 3787 = WLP530 = WestmalleWyeast 3538 = N/A = Corsendonk-BocqWyeast 3864 = N/A = UniboureSource: Zainasheff, J. (2007). Yeast strain chart. Retrieved from Mr Malty: https://www.mrmalty.com/yeast.htm

Edited by Rick, 22 February 2011 - 08:46 AM.

[weave]

Wow. Thanks Rick. Great info there. Just what I was looking for.

[positiveContact]

just a note - I have a pale ale made with the ommegang yeast on tap right now. now that the hops have faded a little bit there is a distinct bubblegum taste. I don't recall this taste in the last beer I made with this yeast. I'm not sure what is different that it showed up this time.

[Big Nake]

just a note - I have a pale ale made with the ommegang yeast on tap right now. now that the hops have faded a little bit there is a distinct bubblegum taste. I don't recall this taste in the last beer I made with this yeast. I'm not sure what is different that it showed up this time.

I think this can come from using yeast multiple times. I'm not implying that you mishandled the yeast, but I have even had bubblegum flavors come from the 3rd or 4th use of things like 2124 Bohemian Lager and 1056 American Ale. I always ferment low in the range for lagers or ales so I would hope that it's not due to a warm ferment, but I think that this flavor can mutate from yeast that has been used and reused or used/stored/reused. Last summer I made what I would call a summer Festbier (basically just a light-colored, light-bodied Oktoberfest). I had a bunch of family staying with us including 6 kids in their early twenties (a lot of beer put away). When one of the kegs blew, I brought this Festbier to the taps and told them that I hadn't tasted it yet. It was made with 2124 and had a slightly phenolic, mildly bubblegummy flavor. I took a small taste and sort of winced. My sister said, "what's the matter?" and I said, "I taste a flaw or two". Then the Twenty-somethings started drinking it and they were all like "WHOO!" so maybe they actually liked that character. Thankfully, over the next 2-3 days... they drained it. Mashly, you don't say which strain you're talking about but if it's a Belgian, I'm sure that profile could come by the buckets. Cheers.

[positiveContact]

I think this can come from using yeast multiple times. I'm not implying that you mishandled the yeast, but I have even had bubblegum flavors come from the 3rd or 4th use of things like 2124 Bohemian Lager and 1056 American Ale. I always ferment low in the range for lagers or ales so I would hope that it's not due to a warm ferment, but I think that this flavor can mutate from yeast that has been used and reused or used/stored/reused. Last summer I made what I would call a summer Festbier (basically just a light-colored, light-bodied Oktoberfest). I had a bunch of family staying with us including 6 kids in their early twenties (a lot of beer put away). When one of the kegs blew, I brought this Festbier to the taps and told them that I hadn't tasted it yet. It was made with 2124 and had a slightly phenolic, mildly bubblegummy flavor. I took a small taste and sort of winced. My sister said, "what's the matter?" and I said, "I taste a flaw or two". Then the Twenty-somethings started drinking it and they were all like "WHOO!" so maybe they actually liked that character. Thankfully, over the next 2-3 days... they drained it. Mashly, you don't say which strain you're talking about but if it's a Belgian, I'm sure that profile could come by the buckets. Cheers.

it's ommegang's house yeast so I don't know what it is. it's the same yeast the OP mentioned. this was only my second use of it though.

Edited by mashleyJwilliams, 27 February 2011 - 11:15 AM.

[weave]

it's ommegang's house yeast so I don't know what it is. it's the same yeast the OP mentioned. this was only my second use of it though.

Do you recall what temp you fermented at?

[positiveContact]

Do you recall what temp you fermented at?

looks like it was around 66F. the first batch that wasn't as bubblegummy was actually around 71F

[positiveContact]

looks like it was around 66F. the first batch that wasn't as bubblegummy was actually around 71F

here is an interesting thing I just remembered - on the bubblegum batch I didn't get to oxygenate very well b/c my O2 stone shot off the end of my tube and sat in the fermentor for the duration of the primary fermentation. could low O2 in the wort have contributed to this taste?

[weave]

here is an interesting thing I just remembered - on the bubblegum batch I didn't get to oxygenate very well b/c my O2 stone shot off the end of my tube and sat in the fermentor for the duration of the primary fermentation. could low O2 in the wort have contributed to this taste?

I didn't need another variable !!!

[positiveContact]

I didn't need another variable !!!

based on a little bit of googling it sounds like the low O2 could contribute with a yeast like this. I'm not sure how quality my google sources are but it makes sense.

[Big Nake]

Thank you for reminding me that I need to stop and get a canister of O2. I am making my Hacienda Lager tomorrow morning and my O2 supply has been depleted. Cheers.

[positiveContact]

Thank you for reminding me that I need to stop and get a canister of O2. I am making my Hacienda Lager tomorrow morning and my O2 supply has been depleted. Cheers.

yes, fortunately of any brew for my O2 stone to have a mishap this was the best possible scenario since bubblegum isn't out of style for a belgian pale ale.