26 replies to this topic

[gnef]

I have some friends that have been running an art show themselves for a while, and I've been serving my homebrew for their art show openings. They recently became a true non-profit, but that has me worried as to the legality of serving alcohol. They have an apartment that is two levels, the bottom level is where the art is, and is open to the street. The top level is where they live. I don't know if that has any bearing on the legality of what they are doing.I've been searching all over the internet looking for a solid answer, but just can't find one.Do they need to get a license to serve? Can they give away beer for free?I assume they need insurance for something like this? Should they be checking ID's of those coming in?These are all questions I am looking answers to.They said they can't find anything that precludes them from serving alcohol for free, and not charging the patrons. I would prefer to find something that says that it is clearly acceptable and allowable within the letter of the law. This is Georgia - does the county and city matter?I do NOT want to get in trouble for doing this as a favor to these friends. Any help would be much appreciated.

[BlKtRe]

Dont even think about asking the ABC or your Representative. Were talking a grey area here. Best way to do this is include the price of the beer with the ticket. Pre sold ticket sales works best. No money exchanged at the door, just a ticket. Beer will just happen to be served for free. No money exchanged for the beer.

[positiveContact]

Dont even think about asking the ABC or your Representative. Were talking a grey area here. Best way to do this is include the price of the beer with the ticket. Pre sold ticket sales works best. No money exchanged at the door, just a ticket. Beer will just happen to be served for free. No money exchanged for the beer.

I'd give the friends the beer with explicit instructions that I didn't know they were going to be serving it to the general public. The beer was a gift to them - what they do with it is their business.

[BlKtRe]

I'd give the friends the beer with explicit instructions that I didn't know they were going to be serving it to the general public. The beer was a gift to them - what they do with it is their business.

Where you get in trouble is taking money at the event. It could be noted as selling beer. Which you cannot do. Been down this road with a lawyer friend on some similar stuff. The grey area Im talking about if you are indeed going to charge a ticket. If the event is free, Id just keep an eye out for possible under age drinkers and just do it.

[positiveContact]

Where you get in trouble is taking money at the event. It could be noted as selling beer. Which you cannot do. Been down this road with a lawyer friend on some similar stuff. The grey area Im talking about if you are indeed going to charge a ticket. If the event is free, Id just keep an eye out for possible under age drinkers and just do it.

I'd think if it was free it'd be fine but who knows what local and state laws will have to say about it.

[realbeerguy]

Non-profit or not, insurance would be needed. If an admission in charged, they would need a temporary permit (at least in SC). You providing the beer knowing that it would be served makes you a part should something occur that would initiate a lawsuit. Part of the risk is that there will be the general public attending, so there is the risk of underage drinkers. While you want to help out your friends, I think there is too much dowside risk to you in providing the beer.

[Deerslyr]

I wonder if UGA LawDog would have some advice. I would advise your friends to get an "Opinion Letter" from an attorney on what they can and cannot do. If this is going to be a frequent happening, I think that they will want need to do this. If you are able to, maybe you could "assist" in paying for legal services. Serving your own beer is a lot of fun and certainly gives you an opportunity to brew more.I'm not up on non-profit laws or alcohol laws, and certainly not in Georgia.

[denny]

I suggest you ask a local lawyer, not homebrewers. Unless a homebrewer here happens to be a local lawyer.

[Deerslyr]

I suggest you ask a local lawyer, not homebrewers. Unless a homebrewer here happens to be a local lawyer.

Good advice Denny. I always like it when a non-lawyer suggests this!

[gnef]

wow, that is quite the response! Thanks guys!I actually do have a friend that is a lawyer. Alcohol law is not in his realm of common knowledge, but he knows other lawyers that deal with this. He will ask around and get back to me.I do not know about their current insurance situation, but that is something I will definitely talk with them about. They just recently got all their paperwork through to become the non-profit, so this is new to them, and this wasn't their primary concern. This is my primary concern, since if anyone gets in trouble, I foresee myself getting in quite a bit of trouble. I am a teacher, so that is not something I am willing to risk.The events are free to the public, but at this point, they may need to hire a licensed/professional bartender and start carding people at minimum. Considering they are just starting up, they may not have the money to be able to do that.We are putting this on hold for now. I will wait for them to look more into any licenses/permits they may need to get, and I will wait till I hear back on their insurance, as well as from my lawyer friend. I need to make sure we are all covered before I proceed with this.

[Mynameisluka]

too bad they can't just view the beer for the art that it is, make it part of the art show, and show it by pouring a glass to be experienced by the attendees. i know it's not that easy, but, hey, art is art, right?

[Deerslyr]

wow, that is quite the response! Thanks guys!I actually do have a friend that is a lawyer. Alcohol law is not in his realm of common knowledge, but he knows other lawyers that deal with this. He will ask around and get back to me.I do not know about their current insurance situation, but that is something I will definitely talk with them about. They just recently got all their paperwork through to become the non-profit, so this is new to them, and this wasn't their primary concern. This is my primary concern, since if anyone gets in trouble, I foresee myself getting in quite a bit of trouble. I am a teacher, so that is not something I am willing to risk.The events are free to the public, but at this point, they may need to hire a licensed/professional bartender and start carding people at minimum. Considering they are just starting up, they may not have the money to be able to do that.We are putting this on hold for now. I will wait for them to look more into any licenses/permits they may need to get, and I will wait till I hear back on their insurance, as well as from my lawyer friend. I need to make sure we are all covered before I proceed with this.

Just asking an attorney to ask an attorney ain't gonna cut it. To have the advice and be able to rely on it, you need to get an attorney to provide an Opinion on the situation, along with advice as how to go about protecting yourself. I'm not saying that their opinion is iron clad and is a "get out of jail free" card, but may have some recourse with malpractice, etc.

[gnef]

I appreciate what you are saying. Once my friend gets back to me, he may be able to point me in the right direction, and depending on cost, I may go the route you are speaking of. If it costs me too much, and the non-profit won't cover it, this will most likely be the end of me being able to supply them with beer. I liked doing it, but definitely not enough for the risk of getting into legal trouble.

[djinkc]

httpss://etax.dor.ga.gov/alcohol/atdfaq.aspx

[HerrHiller]

httpss://etax.dor.ga.gov/alcohol/atdfaq.aspx

this about says it here.

Alcoholic beverages may not be provided without a license as a part of any business operation whether or not the beverages provided are complimentary. Official Code of Georgia Annotated §3-3-3

[gnef]

I saw that as well, but I am just unclear about if the laws are different regarding non-profits. I looked up the requirements for the licenses, and the verbiage all seemed directed at selling/resaling/wholesale alcohol, which I don't know how that would apply.Certain cities/counties have pouring licenses that are significantly cheaper than alcohol licenses, but I couldn't find one specific to what we were doing.

[Jimmy James]

It's an interesting question. I've brewed beer that's been served at wedding receptions, as have many other forum members, but it was always served by the caterer in my case, who provided a bartender. Serving the beer yourself, or even worse having it out of your control, with the 'general public' consuming it, does indeed present a risk. That said, as long as you're careful and nobody gets 'faced I doubt even an off-duty ABC narc that walked in off the street would think twice of it. They might say something, but I doubt they'd call in a SWAT team.

[djinkc]

Yeah, general public and you could have problems. Or not. I served some at my son's wedding - out of state. And at a public venue for the the reheasal dinner. I think it's more don't ask and you will probably be ignored. The art district in KC (no, it's not an oxymoron ) used to have wine out on some Fridays which was probably illegal, but nobody pushed the issue that I'm aware of. They may still do it. Couple this issue with homebrew and you put yourself at risk for trouble that may never come, or may smack you. Knowing Kansas laws regarding homebrew I would not do it, period. It may be different in GA.............Asking local government what is OK worked out real well in Oregon. IIRC, with a lot of HBer's efforts it was resolved the way it should have been.

[denny]

Asking local government what is OK worked out real well in Oregon. IIRC, with a lot of HBer's efforts it was resolved the way it should have been.

Actually, it's worked out really well. We're about to get a law introduced that will pretty much be a model for homebrew legislation.

[djinkc]

Actually, it's worked out really well. We're about to get a law introduced that will pretty much be a model for homebrew legislation.

And we thank you and everyone else involved. One of the state reps was a HBer too? I thought this had been legislated already. I didn't read everything about this, however I thought the whole mess started with an inquiry to the state regarding homebrewing, comps, and expanding from household consumption to competition entries. I guess let sleeping dogs lie, or be proactive and get things fixed before they wake up.