20 replies to this topic

[ChefLamont]

I am still not back up and running from my move a few months ago ( ), but as I make my plans and start rebuilding necessary parts to fit the new space, I think about doing some mods and additions. One of them is a certain amount of automation and control.I did a little poking around the interwebs and didnt really find a lot. Some of the things I found were interesting, but looked pretty hard to program and not user friendly to use (I have a BS and MS in Chemical Engineering, so I have some understanding.) Anyhow, I came upon this web site:https://www.embedded...olconcepts.com/This looks like a pretty neat system that has a good balance of flexibility/programability and ease of use. The stuff isnt cheap, but for what you can do with it, I think the price is quite reasonable. I was wondering if any of yall have had any experience with the product or company.

[HVB]

There is a lot of talk about that unit on the Homebrew Talk forum. I had thought about going with something like that but kept my Love controls and PID because I already had them and it would have cost me a bunch to make the change.

[No Party JKor]

I looked at that a while back ('08?). When ECC was developing it, they actually posted on the green board looking for beta testers. I don't know what happened with that. Anyway, IIRC, at the time I didn't think it had enough inputs and outputs for what I want to do (at the time they just had the BCS-460). Although, it looks like they've added a model with more temp inputs and an expansion card. I may have to reconsider. It is a little pricey w.r.t. home brewing equipment, but compared to equivalent industrial logic controllers it seems like a pretty good bargain.

[Genesee Ted]

How much is it?

[No Party JKor]

How much is it?

According to the website is $187 for the BCS-460 (4 temperature inputs, 4 digital inputs, 6 digital outputs), $345 for the BCS-462 (8 temp inputs, 8 digital inputs, 18 digital outputs) and $34 for expansion card (16 digital I/O). It doesn't look like they have a temperature expansion card.I have to look back at my design. The BCS-462 might actually be able to cover everything I need. I'm glad you posted this up, Chef. I wouldn't have thought to look back at this. I was almost ready to pull the trigger some industrial PLCs which would have been just about as expensive and probably a much bigger PITA to program.

[HarvInSTL]

I've owned both a BCS-460 and a Brewtroller. I used both and sold the BCS-460. The BCS-460 does have some features that I like, namely the easy to use log feature.But I liked the Brewtroller as the base model ($70) supports 9 temp inputs and 4 volume/level sensors. It has relay boards that support 16 pumps/outputs and are about $60 and I believe it supports two of them (32 total outputs).The network connectivity is currently a bit lacking (BTRemote/BT Log is still in beta and being designed/supported by a BrewTroller user) but they are working a better network expansion module called the BTNic.[url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wqaWla6Ptc"]https://www.youtube.c...h?v=-wqaWla6Ptc[/url] Either I think will support your needs. It all (IMHO) depends on which you are more comfortable with using.

[No Party JKor]

That's right. Brewtroller was the other one. I guess I'll have to take a look at both again. How is the programming on the BT compared to the BCS?

[HarvInSTL]

That's right. Brewtroller was the other one. I guess I'll have to take a look at both again. How is the programming on the BT compared to the BCS?

Its one of the main reasons why I switched. The BCS programming is very, very robust. It's openly available and allows for some bad ass things to be done. (Like linking 4 of them together and control them as 1 unit via the state controls.The issue for me is that I either didn't want to or was having issues understanding/programming using the state machine concept. The Brewtroller (IMHO) is easier to use in that regards. The other reason why I switched was that I wanted more than 4 temp inputs and more than 6 outputs. I also do like having the LCD and the ability to change how everything is functioning from that rather than being tethered to a computer.The Brewtroller was (again IMHO) easier to use, offered more temp inputs and outputs for less so my decision was easy. Sell my BCS and buy a Brewtroller. My current 3.1 is going into my fermentation chamber/kegerator as a Fermtroller and I'll be buying their new 4.0 model when it is released in a couple months. So I'm a fan!

[ChefLamont]

Yea I also looked at the BCS as well. I suppose if I am honest, the idea of the pretty colorful display on the computer monitor and a mouse was more attractive to me than the four-lined blue screen and the knob. You are right though, it is a lot more flexible and robust for a lower price.

[No Party JKor]

I've owned both a BCS-460 and a Brewtroller. I used both and sold the BCS-460. The BCS-460 does have some features that I like, namely the easy to use log feature.But I liked the Brewtroller as the base model ($70) supports 9 temp inputs and 4 volume/level sensors. It has relay boards that support 16 pumps/outputs and are about $60 and I believe it supports two of them (32 total outputs).The network connectivity is currently a bit lacking (BTRemote/BT Log is still in beta and being designed/supported by a BrewTroller user) but they are working a better network expansion module called the BTNic.Either I think will support your needs. It all (IMHO) depends on which you are more comfortable with using.

Where can you buy the Brewtroller?

[ChefLamont]

You can buy one here.

[No Party JKor]

Hardware-wise the Brewtroller seems better. I like that it has a few analog inputs for pressure and level sensing. The 16 point relay board is pretty reasonably priced as well. Under $200 for the controller, 16 8A relay outputs and the LCD screen is pretty damn good.Just looking at them, it does seem the the Brewtroller is a little more focused and, maybe, limited in functionality/versatility compared to the BCS, but I guess it really depends on what you are ultimately looking for.

[No Party JKor]

Its one of the main reasons why I switched. The BCS programming is very, very robust. It's openly available and allows for some bad ass things to be done. (Like linking 4 of them together and control them as 1 unit via the state controls.The issue for me is that I either didn't want to or was having issues understanding/programming using the state machine concept. The Brewtroller (IMHO) is easier to use in that regards. The other reason why I switched was that I wanted more than 4 temp inputs and more than 6 outputs. I also do like having the LCD and the ability to change how everything is functioning from that rather than being tethered to a computer.The Brewtroller was (again IMHO) easier to use, offered more temp inputs and outputs for less so my decision was easy. Sell my BCS and buy a Brewtroller. My current 3.1 is going into my fermentation chamber/kegerator as a Fermtroller and I'll be buying their new 4.0 model when it is released in a couple months. So I'm a fan!

I just noticed that the BT uses IC based temperature sensors. How do you like these? Do they seem accurate? Have you check them against a standard and/or calibrated them?

[No Party JKor]

Looking at both of these controllers, they both seem pretty limited in the programming department. The BCS appears to be a little better, but still limited. I don't like that you have to define 'processes' and that you are limited to how many can run simultaneously.

[HarvInSTL]

I just noticed that the BT uses IC based temperature sensors. How do you like these? Do they seem accurate? Have you check them against a standard and/or calibrated them?

I've had no issues with them. Tested next to two different thermo's that had been calibrated and detected no issues. If they were out of calibration you can adjust for that within the software.

[Stout_fan]

... It is a little pricey w.r.t. home brewing equipment, but compared to equivalent industrial logic controllers it seems like a pretty good bargain.

At one time as a systems designer we used Horner/ GE Fanuc controllers. We were their biggest customer.Now I reasoned: "What self respecting design engineer couldn't turn this into some free gear?"They offered me last column pricing.Estimated bill for what I would need was still $2k.So some of these systems do represent a good bargain for the $$$

[ChicagoWaterGuy]

Could some of the homebrewers with automated breweries post links or pics? I'd like to check them out.

[No Party JKor]

Could some of the homebrewers with automated breweries post links or pics? I'd like to check them out.

Give me about 6 months...

[ChefLamont]

Could some of the homebrewers with automated breweries post links or pics? I'd like to check them out.

Same here. At the rate I get (arguably) non-essential projects done around my house and brewery, I will need a couple of years on that one.ETA: I haven't done the automation yet.....I am not THAT slow at taking pictures and posting them.

Edited by ChefLamont, 21 December 2010 - 08:51 PM.

[HarvInSTL]

Give me about 6 months...

lol, tell me about it. I've been collecting parts and testing these systems out for almost 18 months! Once I get the kegerator/fermentation chamber finished it will be full steam ahead. Just wish I could find a place that has decent 2/3 way valves for less than $40-50/each.Both the BCS & BT have sub-forums where people show off their rigs. I'll get the links in a bit.

Edited by GateRape, 22 December 2010 - 07:58 AM.