Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Fermenting in a barrel


  • Please log in to reply
19 replies to this topic

#1 HVB

HVB

    No Life

  • Patron
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 18372 posts

Posted 05 November 2010 - 08:44 AM

I have a small 7g barrel that I want to start using for sours. What are the thought about fermenting right in that and leaving the beer in there to age? Would autolysis be and issue? I am debating what yeasts to use, I have some roselare and also some beatification dregs I built up. I think the recipe will be very simple and based on the Russian River Redemption recipe.91% 2 row3 % acidulaed3% wheat malt3 % maltBitter with Golding and shoot for something around 1.050-1.060I know we have some experienced barrel people in here so chime in.Mike

#2 BlKtRe

BlKtRe

    Comptroller of le Shartes

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 16844 posts
  • LocationThe Land of Oz

Posted 05 November 2010 - 08:55 AM

If you pitch directly with bugs autolysis will not be a issue. Just remember that the smaller barrel size will impart more oak into the beer. So less time in smaller volumes in barrel.Id shoot for a 1.060 beer. Not sure what your 3% Malt will be but suggest using a grain that that offers some complex sugars. Maybe something a little dark if you use the Roselare. Not a biggie, but color matching a Flanders is really pretty. Does RR bottle with the original yeast? Just curious. Keep your total IBU's around 20 or so. Consider mashing a little higher than normal. Once you go to the Dark Side, you wont ever find your way back!

#3 EWW

EWW

    Regular, normal human being

  • Patron
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 26450 posts
  • LocationSomewhere special

Posted 05 November 2010 - 09:02 AM

I'm not much help with the barrel, but for sours I really dig some Munich malt in the grist.

#4 BlKtRe

BlKtRe

    Comptroller of le Shartes

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 16844 posts
  • LocationThe Land of Oz

Posted 05 November 2010 - 09:04 AM

What condition is your barrel in? All specifics.

#5 HVB

HVB

    No Life

  • Patron
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 18372 posts

Posted 05 November 2010 - 09:33 AM

What condition is your barrel in? All specifics.

The barrel is in good shape. It a rye barrel that I had used a few times and had been used several times before I got it. I have run many gallons of water through it to pull out as much of the remaining rye flavor as I can. The 3% malt is ViennaAnd Beatification dregs are the wild yeast. I talked to Vinnie at GABF about getting some of their wild yeast and he said to just use the dregs from beatification.Not goign for any specific style other than a nice wild/sour ale.

#6 BlKtRe

BlKtRe

    Comptroller of le Shartes

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 16844 posts
  • LocationThe Land of Oz

Posted 05 November 2010 - 10:24 AM

Sounds like the barrel does not leak. But you will have a host bug in there no matter what. Could be Brett, Lacto, or even Pedio. Usually a barrel wont keep critters at bay just by cold water rinse. These bugs live deep in the wood. This is why brewers will rinse then use some type of sulphite or even sulphur to keep these host critters down to a minimum. But that doesn't mean that you will make a bad beer if you did not do these things. Anytime you barrel age there is risk. Generally speaking tho when doing sour beers the risk is worth it. Pro's with the right type of rinsing equipment will try to isolate the host bug as much as possible to increase the chances that their own cocktail will be prominent.

#7 HVB

HVB

    No Life

  • Patron
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 18372 posts

Posted 05 November 2010 - 10:30 AM

Sounds like the barrel does not leak. But you will have a host bug in there no matter what. Could be Brett, Lacto, or even Pedio. Usually a barrel wont keep critters at bay just by cold water rinse. These bugs live deep in the wood. This is why brewers will rinse then use some type of sulphite or even sulphur to keep these host critters down to a minimum. But that doesn't mean that you will make a bad beer if you did not do these things. Anytime you barrel age there is risk. Generally speaking tho when doing sour beers the risk is worth it. Pro's with the right type of rinsing equipment will try to isolate the host bug as much as possible to increase the chances that their own cocktail will be prominent.

Oh,I assume there are a bunch of bugs living in there. Would a very hot water rinse help?

#8 BlKtRe

BlKtRe

    Comptroller of le Shartes

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 16844 posts
  • LocationThe Land of Oz

Posted 05 November 2010 - 10:45 AM

Oh,I assume there are a bunch of bugs living in there. Would a very hot water rinse help?

Yes, at the very least get the dregs of the previous batch out of there. Will a hot water rinse kill anything in there? No. Good luck with your adventure. We currently have a BGS in a 4th run 23 yr old Pappy barrel (3 were ours) that has a host bug plus we dosed with Brett B. thats been in for 5 mths. Mon. Im headed to Boulevard Brewery to pick up three 2nd JD barrels that held their Smokehouse. Getting ready for a maylay of wild beers and have a few barrels aging. Thinking one will be a Old World Porter.

#9 BarelyBrews

BarelyBrews

    Frequent Member

  • Patron
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1631 posts
  • LocationMichigan

Posted 05 November 2010 - 11:01 AM

If i came into a barrel i would be so into doing something like this.A friend of mine that just makes wine(once a year at most) used Caustic(food grade)in his wooden bucket and wrecked his last batch of wine.For now, i am just using wood chips/cubes.

#10 Mynameisluka

Mynameisluka

    Comptroller of Brownies

  • Patron
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 24773 posts

Posted 05 November 2010 - 11:05 AM

If i came into a barrel i would be so into doing something like this.A friend of mine that just makes wine(once a year at most) used Caustic(food grade)in his wooden bucket and wrecked his last batch of wine.For now, i am just using wood chips/cubes.

i doubt that you could ever completely/sufficiently rinse caustic out of wood.

#11 HVB

HVB

    No Life

  • Patron
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 18372 posts

Posted 05 November 2010 - 12:14 PM

Thanks for the suggestions. I think I will give it a hot water bath and then go with a sulphite solution to get it ready. Plan to brew this Thanksgiving weekend.

#12 BlKtRe

BlKtRe

    Comptroller of le Shartes

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 16844 posts
  • LocationThe Land of Oz

Posted 05 November 2010 - 12:48 PM

Thanks for the suggestions. I think I will give it a hot water bath and then go with a sulphite solution to get it ready. Plan to brew this Thanksgiving weekend.

Hot water rinse the sulphite solution right before adding your wort.

#13 HVB

HVB

    No Life

  • Patron
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 18372 posts

Posted 05 November 2010 - 12:53 PM

Hot water rinse the sulphite solution right before adding your wort.

That makes sense. Would it make sense to do a 10g batch and ferment 3 gallons out with something like S-05 and use that to top off. I would assume the 05 would leave enough long chain sugars for the bugs to eat.

#14 BlKtRe

BlKtRe

    Comptroller of le Shartes

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 16844 posts
  • LocationThe Land of Oz

Posted 05 November 2010 - 04:25 PM

That makes sense. Would it make sense to do a 10g batch and ferment 3 gallons out with something like S-05 and use that to top off. I would assume the 05 would leave enough long chain sugars for the bugs to eat.

When I said to consider a higher mash temp and a specialty malt I was leaning towards this. When using a Sac strain and mashing high, you will leave some complex sugars behind. Same with using some type of crystal. You could do the entire batch like this using Sac. Move to the barrel and pitch your bugs. I dont think splitting the batch as you say will make much difference. The beauty of this is you will get some of the character from the Sac and the bug(s) of choice. If you finish with Sac around 1.010, pitch bugs you should attenuate, possibly super attenuate easily over time. A OG of 1.060 mashed around 156-58* will work perfectly.Ever considered doing a cereal mash with some raw Wheat for this project?

#15 HVB

HVB

    No Life

  • Patron
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 18372 posts

Posted 08 November 2010 - 06:26 AM

Ever considered doing a cereal mash with some raw Wheat for this project?

I have not but that is not saying I cannot. I will have to do some research on this. I plan to do a full turbid mash lambic this winter so this may be a good intro to it.

#16 BlKtRe

BlKtRe

    Comptroller of le Shartes

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 16844 posts
  • LocationThe Land of Oz

Posted 08 November 2010 - 07:25 AM

I have not but that is not saying I cannot. I will have to do some research on this. I plan to do a full turbid mash lambic this winter so this may be a good intro to it.

Sweet. Cant wait. Please keep us informed.!!

#17 HVB

HVB

    No Life

  • Patron
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 18372 posts

Posted 08 November 2010 - 07:39 AM

Sweet. Cant wait. Please keep us informed.!!

I will. If it comes out dedcent may be able to send a few bottles of for a review. In about a year from now :covreyes:

#18 BlKtRe

BlKtRe

    Comptroller of le Shartes

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 16844 posts
  • LocationThe Land of Oz

Posted 08 November 2010 - 08:13 AM

I will. If it comes out dedcent may be able to send a few bottles of for a review. In about a year from now :covreyes:

Yes. I should have a few to trade with. Currently we have the Brett BGS in oak cask. A Brett Saison with French Oak chips in HDPE. In keg the previous Noble Red from the oak cask that got bugged with the friendly resident. A 2005 and 2006 Flanders. On deck for the barrels I'm picking up today is a Oid Bruin and a Old World Porter. Starting to get a nice buggy barrel room put together.

#19 HVB

HVB

    No Life

  • Patron
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 18372 posts

Posted 08 November 2010 - 08:26 AM

Yes. I should have a few to trade with. Currently we have the Brett BGS in oak cask. A Brett Saison with French Oak chips in HDPE. In keg the previous Noble Red from the oak cask that got bugged with the friendly resident. A 2005 and 2006 Flanders. On deck for the barrels I'm picking up today is a Oid Bruin and a Old World Porter. Starting to get a nice buggy barrel room put together.

Those sound great. The club I am in has 2 Buffalo Trace barrels we need to fill, they are sitting in my garage and it hurts me to see them empty. Hard to get everyone to agree on a style.Any idea what beers came out of the barrels you are getting from Boulevard? I really like the bourbon barrel quad.

#20 BlKtRe

BlKtRe

    Comptroller of le Shartes

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 16844 posts
  • LocationThe Land of Oz

Posted 08 November 2010 - 08:40 AM

Those sound great. The club I am in has 2 Buffalo Trace barrels we need to fill, they are sitting in my garage and it hurts me to see them empty. Hard to get everyone to agree on a style.Any idea what beers came out of the barrels you are getting from Boulevard? I really like the bourbon barrel quad.

I will find out today for sure which styles came out of the Boulevard barrels. For sure it was something from the Smokestack Series. These are second running barrels so there is some debate if there will be any more whiskey notes adding anything to our beer or not. We also need to nail down what seconds mean. Is the whiskey the first, then a beer was the second? If so our Noble Red would of been the third batch in and it contains whiskey notes. Even after being full of sulphite twice while being stored in between batches. The BGS does not contain any whiskey notes what so ever. Speaking of which, please tell me your BT barrels are full of sulphite while your storing them? Oh, and planning barrel brews is a drawn out affair. I dont really want to brag, but LBG is becoming pretty good at it.


1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users