18 replies to this topic

[DgNt]

I'd like to try to make come cider so my wife can enjoy my hobby now that I have a few batches of beer under my belt. While cider certainly seems easy; keep things sanitized, take unpreserved apple juice and maybe some added sugar and add yeast and you should get cider, I'd like to make something enjoyable on my first attempt and thus have a few questions.What yeast is best? I'd like for the cider to not be super dry and would prefer dry yeast if I have that option.If I want to stop the fermentation, what level of attenuation would I want to add the potassium sorbate so I don't end up with something too sweet? What's the best temp to ferment cider (does it matter -noted that it may depend on the yeast)?Is there any concern with kegging the cider once done and then using the keg for beer? -I've seen references to that being a bad thing but if cleaning and sanitization is good, is there any reason not to keg it?Thanks!

[DgNt]

Getting real close to starting a batch of cider, can I primary in a carboy filled nearly full with airlock or will there be too much activity and require a bucket or larger carboy/blow off? Thinking of 4.5gal fermenting in a 5 gal carboy and eventually sweetening with a 1/2-1 gallon of cider after adding the sulfite.Thanks!

[DgNt]

I'm thinking you need more headspace. I've gotten about six inches of foam in a 6.5 gallon carboy before, but that was the widest section. If you put 4.5 gallons in a 5 gallon carboy, use a blowoff tube. Be better if you used a large carboy or a bucket - then you can use an airlock just fine.

So the "krausen" is fairly substantial then? I was thinking/hoping that with less protein, it wouldn't be such an issue. I've got two occupied buckets (and don't want more... well, of course I do but only so much space for brewing) and several carboys that will be vacant. Guess I'd be best off to wait till a bucket becomes available? Using a blow off tube, will it blow much liquid out or is cider thin enough that I won't kill my yield by blowing two quarts of liquid out?Thanks again.

[DgNt]

I've always done it in either 6.5 gal buckets or carboys, but I imagine the blowoff should be negligible with your given scenario. The foam will dissipate after a day or two and shouldn't cause any issues with a blowoff tube in a 5 gallon carboy.

Thanks, I'll probably try it and hope that I don't lose too much (lost better than a quart of my holiday ale through the blow-off). Lots going on but cider won't take much time. I'm currently building my kegerator collar (slowly) and just bought a 21 ft^2 used chest freezer off of CL for fermenting/storage. Planning on brewing a beer tomorrow and another on Veteran's Day to stock my two taps and figured I'd start a cider sometime soon since I have tons of fermenting space now (just nowhere to live!). I suspect once I get cider on tap SWMBO won't mind the hobby so much (she really doesn't like beer and I can't bring myself to try to clone Bud Light)

[DgNt]

The best yeast will be some high flocculating, clean tasting/smelling yeast. Something like Nottingham or US-05. All the yeasts will most likely ferment drier than what you might want. If they do, add sorbate and sulfite to stabilize, then add honey or sugar to desired sweetness. Best temperature will depend on yeast, most are good around 65*F. There is no concern kegging cider. Clean and sanitize as normal - before and after use and there will be no reason not to keg.

Ok, now I'm very close (have 6 gallons of cider in the house). I have both Nottingham and US-05 on hand. If no difference, I'd prefer the Nottingham. I'm planning on pitching into 4.5G of cider in a 5 Gal Carboy and fermenting around 65º. Besides adding gravity/alcohol, is there any noticeable benefit to adding a pound of brown sugar? -If I do, should I sterilize it (boil it into a heavy syrup before adding to the pasteurized cider? How long should I leave in primary before racking to secondary (and how long should I wait before I add sulfite and sweeten to taste with additional cider)? How much sorbate and sulfite? I plan to keg it and lightly force carb.Any other suggestions would be appreciated. Cider seems so easy but there seems to be less info out there to confirm my suspicions.Thanks!

[DgNt]

Brown sugar: you get a hint of molasses flavour from the addition, something that can be really nice at the right concentration to overpowering at too much. 1 pound in 5 gallons should be just fine. Add it straight to the cider and don't worry about heating it. If you heat it, do not add cider to the heating mixture (heat sets pectins) and don't carmelise/burn the sugar or you get the obvious burnt taste. Secondary racking: I would keep the cider on the lees (sur lie) for several months (3-6) before racking. The lees sometimes have properties associated with malo-lactic fermentation and your malic acid will lessen on the less than if you don't age on lees.Sulphite/Sorbate stabilisation: wait until you are ready to bottle/keg. Generally speaking for cider (less than 10% ABV), you use about 0.75 g/gal of sorbate and 0.33 g/gal of sulphite to stabilize. For reference, 1 tsp KMETA ≈ 6.1g and 1/2 tsp Sorbate ≈ 1.65g

Thanks, I knew it would take a bit longer than most beers so wanted to get started now that I have plenty of space in my fermentation freezer. As far as racking to secondary, as soon as the active fermentation dies down?Guess I'll start it this week. Thanks.

[DgNt]

Ok, well since I'm brewing today and will make a fresh batch of starsan, I'll pitch the yeast in the cider too. Should I add any nutrients to the cider to start? I have some "Super Ferment" from my friend. 1/2 tsp/gal ok? Instructions say 1/2-1 tsp/gal for wine or 1/5 tsp/gal beer. I've never used it before but figure the cider may be lacking some minerals. thx

[davelew]

Ok, well since I'm brewing today and will make a fresh batch of starsan, I'll pitch the yeast in the cider too. Should I add any nutrients to the cider to start? I have some "Super Ferment" from my friend. 1/2 tsp/gal ok? Instructions say 1/2-1 tsp/gal for wine or 1/5 tsp/gal beer. I've never used it before but figure the cider may be lacking some minerals. thx

Opinions differ. I don't like adding nutrients to cider. I find that without nutrients, I get more "good" flavors from the slightly stressed yeast, and it finishes less dry, with more residual sweetness. There's a traditional method of making cider called "keeving" that actively tries to remove nutrients from the cider.On the other hand, almost every other home cider maker I know adds nutrients, and both of my local homebrew shops look at me funny when I say that I don't add nutrients.Oh yeah, and the key nutrient that cider lacks is fixed nitrogen, which is why many people add yeast nutrients that include urea.

[DgNt]

Opinions differ. I don't like adding nutrients to cider. I find that without nutrients, I get more "good" flavors from the slightly stressed yeast, and it finishes less dry, with more residual sweetness. There's a traditional method of making cider called "keeving" that actively tries to remove nutrients from the cider.On the other hand, almost every other home cider maker I know adds nutrients, and both of my local homebrew shops look at me funny when I say that I don't add nutrients.Oh yeah, and the key nutrient that cider lacks is fixed nitrogen, which is why many people add yeast nutrients that include urea.

Thanks, I ended up pitching without nutrients. Figured this first batch can be a baseline from which to deviate next time. Just cider and Nottingham. The cider itself was about 1.055 so I didn't bother adding sugar. In a few months I'll decide whether to back-sweeten or not (probably based on SWMBO's opinion). I'd prefer to have it finish a little sweeter so I don't have to back-sweeten so maybe I made the right choice.Cheers.

[DgNt]

It never went crazy. I threw an airlock on it last week. I think it's mostly done fermenting. I'll leave it on the lees for a while and rack to a secondary in a few weeks (most likely when I mix a new batch of Starsan up and I know it's most effective) and will let it sit another month or two... if it tastes good enough at that time, I may go ahead and keg it as SWMBO keeps asking if its ready yet.

[DgNt]

For better or worse, I racked the cider to a secondary carboy today (26 days). Started at 1.055 and was 1.008 today. Taste is dry and a bit tart; not bad, will be interesting to see how it goes from here. Will try to leave it in secondary for at least a month, maybe more if I can keep out of it and SWMBO doesn't ping me too much.

[DgNt]

Ok, so I plan on kegging/bottling this next weekend. I started with 4.5 gallons of cider. My plan is to prime and bottle 12 servings to enjoy dry and then keg the rest and backsweeten with 100% applejuice concentrate. My question is, how much concentrate to use. Each "can" has 168g (5.9oz of sugars)*. Any suggestions? Since the kegged cider is for SWMBO, the "correct" answer is to fill the keg with concentrate so it drips out as a sickeningly sweet cider syrup. I'm throwing out that option as I want a sweet cider that is still enjoyable?Also, if it gets up into the 3-6 can range would I be better off sweetening with sugar (to avoid too much apple flavor) or adding water (so in effect I'm adding apple juice as opposed to concentrate)? I'm not worried with the sugars fermenting as this will be kept around 40º and I don't expect Nottingham to like those fridged temps.This one's easy as it is to taste but I hope to hit the mark up front rather than keep breaking the seal on the keg.Thanks.* I intend to add 1/2 can to prime my dry cider prior to bottling and then add as much as I need to sweeten the keg.

[EWW]

Seems like rough math on the priming sugar - this could yield bottle bombsI like to backsweeten with honey but that's your call. I'd also recommend stabilizing before sweetening. The FAQ has info on this I think

[DgNt]

Seems like rough math on the priming sugar - this could yield bottle bombsI like to backsweeten with honey but that's your call. I'd also recommend stabilizing before sweetening. The FAQ has info on this I think

I don't think the math will be that rough, I expect the concentrate to be labeled within a safe deviation and I'll calculate the appropriate amount based off the volume cider I am priming. At 5.9oz/can, half a can would be about 3.5 oz of sugars for a 4.5 gallon batch.Honey could be good , how much honey would you recommend per gallon? (I had thought about adding a berry juice concentrate too but I'd like for my first batch to be a straight cider)If I'm putting this in a keg and chilling, what is the benefit to stabilizing? I wouldn't expect the yeast, or any other resident bugs, to be very active at <40º and even if they get a little excited and eat the sugar, it would be in a vessel that could handle the pressure (especially since I'd vent excess pressure evident at serving).Thanks!

[EWW]

I like mine around 1.010 - so how ever much it takes to get it to that point based on my FG

[DgNt]

I like mine around 1.010 - so how ever much it takes to get it to that point based on my FG

Mine was 1.008 at racking in December and I don't think it's gone any lower. The sample had a crisp tartness I enjoyed at that time. Unless I don't like it, I'll bottle some for me and keg the rest as planned. I guess calculating a desired FG and backsweetening it to that point may be a neat idea. She'd probably like it at 1.012-1.018. I'll play around with the math and buy some more concentrate.Cheers.

[EWW]

Ciders should finish a little below 1.000. If it's not that low adding priming sugar could restart fermentation and take down to terminal gravity creating IEDs. The only exception to this is if you added lactose preferment.

[DgNt]

Ciders should finish a little below 1.000. If it's not that low adding priming sugar could restart fermentation and take down to terminal gravity creating IEDs. The only exception to this is if you added lactose preferment.

I'll check it tomorrow when I go to keg/bottle. Should be ok and probably did ferment out a bit more since racking. Unless the gravity is still high, I'm planning on priming with juice concentrate at a rate of 80 grams of sugar (from the label) to about 4.5 gallons of cider (should be about equivalent to 3 oz of priming sugar if the label is accurate). I will then bottle about 1.5 gallons and keg the rest. I'll add additional concentrate to get the gravity up in the 1.012-1.018 range so it's good and sweet for the wife. At 3 gallons being sweetened, I figure one can will get me just over 5.5 points (168 grams of sugars per can) and have 3 cans on hand.If my math is way off, correct me.. or wish me luck! I think I'll be ok though.After the cider I have 10 gallons of beer to bottle... ugh, will be a long morning.

[DgNt]

Ended up at 1.005; with a very dry flavor. Very clean taste but unfortunately I don't notice the tartness I liked in the racking sample. I've decided to bottle 7 pints and will keg the rest. I'm bottling in swingtops so if they do overcarb, it won't be too difficult to break the seal on the small number of bottles. The balance to be kegged will get another 16 ounces of concentrate and be chilled with another can of concentrate in the freezer if SWMBO demands more sweetness.