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Hacienda Mexican Vienna Lager...


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#41 Brauer

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Posted 24 January 2017 - 09:52 AM

Cool. That's a thought. And can I assume that whatever is in there (the starch part... which is supposed to thicken things) only gets active when it's boiled? I'm trying to envision what happens with that part of it.

That is starch gelatinization, and you want that. That's essentially why you are mashing hot in the first place.

#42 Big Nake

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Posted 24 January 2017 - 12:02 PM

Oh yeah, all of that makes sense. So to encapsulate all of this... what items that people might find at their grocery store would be considered reasonable to use for this purpose?

1. Masa Harina
2. Corn meal
3. Tortilla crumbs (something I found that resembles bread crumbs... ingredients are 'corn and lime')
4. Corn starch

What ingredients should brewers look for that would be a red flag or better... what would acceptable ingredients be?

#43 Poptop

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Posted 24 January 2017 - 12:07 PM

Converted (instant) grits

#44 HVB

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Posted 10 February 2017 - 09:33 AM

Plan to do this one on Sunday, will be using corn starch instead of the Flaked corn and most likely 34/70.



#45 Big Nake

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Posted 10 February 2017 - 09:50 AM

I'm pulling my version out of primary tomorrow and kegging it. I just used flaked corn on it. I'll use the 2124 on the bottom of that primary in a pilsnery kind of thing. Let us know if the starch futzes up your runoff.

#46 HVB

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Posted 10 February 2017 - 10:14 AM

I'm pulling my version out of primary tomorrow and kegging it. I just used flaked corn on it. I'll use the 2124 on the bottom of that primary in a pilsnery kind of thing. Let us know if the starch futzes up your runoff.

 

Will do.  My system is a bit weird because I use a bag and a false bottom but I may have to slow my pumps down.



#47 Big Nake

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Posted 10 February 2017 - 10:37 AM

Will do.  My system is a bit weird because I use a bag and a false bottom but I may have to slow my pumps down.

All of this reminds me of a conversation I had with the lady at the supply shop. I went in and picked up some flaked corn and she was measuring it out and said, "Make sure you do a 90-minute boil to get rid of the DMS" and I said, "I have never had to do that... 60 minutes is fine" and she said, "Really? Don't you get that corny, DMS character? Here... smell it!" and she held the container up to my nose. I said, "Yeah, I don't think it's an issue" and she said, "I'm very sensitive to it". Then I mentioned that there was a guy on my main forum who boils for only 30 minutes and I thought she would lose her mind. :D I told her that I wasn't sure if you used corn in a 30-minute boil and she said, "God, I hope not!". So... have you used corn or corn products in a 30m boil?

#48 HVB

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Posted 10 February 2017 - 10:46 AM

All of this reminds me of a conversation I had with the lady at the supply shop. I went in and picked up some flaked corn and she was measuring it out and said, "Make sure you do a 90-minute boil to get rid of the DMS" and I said, "I have never had to do that... 60 minutes is fine" and she said, "Really? Don't you get that corny, DMS character? Here... smell it!" and she held the container up to my nose. I said, "Yeah, I don't think it's an issue" and she said, "I'm very sensitive to it". Then I mentioned that there was a guy on my main forum who boils for only 30 minutes and I thought she would lose her mind. :D I told her that I wasn't sure if you used corn in a 30-minute boil and she said, "God, I hope not!". So... have you used corn or corn products in a 30m boil?

No, I have not but I plan to this weekend.  I have this set up for a 30M boil and truthfully I will be surprised if I have any issues.  I could be wrong and I will be the first to admit it if I am.



#49 neddles

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Posted 10 February 2017 - 11:15 AM

Yeah, Drez got the ball rolling here with the 30 min boils. I think there is a handful of us doing it now. I do it on almost every beer I make. Never a hint of DMS. No clarity or flavor issues whatsoever. Its been great to cut out that half hour now that my brewing has been mostly been late at night.

#50 HVB

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Posted 10 February 2017 - 11:22 AM

Yeah, Drez got the ball rolling here with the 30 min boils. I think there is a handful of us doing it now. I do it on almost every beer I make. Never a hint of DMS. No clarity or flavor issues whatsoever. Its been great to cut out that half hour now that my brewing has been mostly been late at night.

:cheers:



#51 Big Nake

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Posted 10 February 2017 - 11:44 AM

I also mentioned to the woman that many people used to call for a 90m boil when using pils or corn. I told her that I never had an issue with 60m and that I never used a 90m boil on any beer. Then introduce the 30m boil and I swear I think I broke her brain. :P

#52 neddles

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Posted 10 February 2017 - 12:10 PM

I also mentioned to the woman that many people used to call for a 90m boil when using pils or corn. I told her that I never had an issue with 60m and that I never used a 90m boil on any beer. Then introduce the 30m boil and I swear I think I broke her brain. :P

Unless I was looking for melanoiden development and/or increased color, or if I was trying to concentrate wort on a barleywine or something similar, I dont think I would ever boil 90 minutes again. 60 will be uncommon. Im not closed to hearing about how these short boils might be adversely effecting my beer but so far Im just not seeing it.

#53 HVB

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Posted 10 February 2017 - 12:15 PM

Unless I was looking for melanoiden development and/or increased color, or if I was trying to concentrate wort on a barleywine or something similar, I dont think I would ever boil 90 minutes again. 60 will be uncommon. Im not closed to hearing about how these short boils might be adversely effecting my beer but so far Im just not seeing it.

 

I agree with that.  If I find a reason why they do not produce good beer I will go back to 60 minute boils.  In over a year and 100+ gallons I have not had one bad beer I can attribute to the boil length.



#54 Big Nake

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Posted 10 February 2017 - 02:22 PM

So I assume the trick is to adjust the amount of bittering hops so you get the right amount (double them or whatever) and then just add your flavor/aroma hops at the normal intervals, right? If I got 25 IBUs of bitterness with ½ oz of Nugget for 60 minutes I should just use however much I need to get 25 IBUs in 30 minutes... correct? I would try that.

#55 positiveContact

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Posted 10 February 2017 - 02:58 PM

So I assume the trick is to adjust the amount of bittering hops so you get the right amount (double them or whatever) and then just add your flavor/aroma hops at the normal intervals, right? If I got 25 IBUs of bitterness with ½ oz of Nugget for 60 minutes I should just use however much I need to get 25 IBUs in 30 minutes... correct? I would try that.

 

that's right ken.  it won't be 2x but let the calculator do the work for you either way.



#56 HVB

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Posted 08 May 2017 - 08:26 AM

My version of this kicked Friday night.  I need to get this one going again soon, what a wonderful beer.  I may have a bottle of it left, I bottled some up to give out.  Dan got one and really liked it.

 

Plan to get a No. German Pils going with S-189, maybe this will follow that.



#57 Big Nake

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Posted 08 May 2017 - 08:35 AM

My version of this kicked Friday night.  I need to get this one going again soon, what a wonderful beer.  I may have a bottle of it left, I bottled some up to give out.  Dan got one and really liked it.
 
Plan to get a No. German Pils going with S-189, maybe this will follow that.

I have a version of it on tap now with 2124. I started drinking it last week and then my wife was hitting it over the weekend. I should probably order some 940 and do it properly. Cheers.

#58 shaggaroo

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Posted 08 May 2017 - 03:18 PM

Masa harina (corn flour) or corn meal. I might check the ingredients to make sure there isn't anything unsavory in there. Masa Harina is usually corn and lime but not enough lime to taste it. Stay away from anything that has anything extra in it. Check out the Hey DJ thread.

Ken, when it says "lime" I'm pretty sure it doesn't mean lime, the fruit, it means lime, as in calcium oxide, or slaked lime, calcium hydroxide. They use it in the processing because it helps to make the niacin available to those that eat it. Only thing it could possibly do is raise your mash pH if you use too much.

#59 Big Nake

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Posted 08 May 2017 - 03:21 PM

Good to know shaggaroo... I always wondered why I never tasted "lime" in things like tortilla chips where it was in the ingredient list. Cheers.

#60 Steve Urquell

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Posted 09 May 2017 - 04:07 AM

I have a recipe similar to this one with the grain bill favoring pilsner malt. It's a crowd favorite very similar to Modelo Especial and I had been getting ready to brew it again. Thanks for the reminder.


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