37 replies to this topic

[TonyBrown]

I'm looking at trying my hand at a monster beer... a Bourbon County Stout-like beer that will have a OG in the neighborhood of 1.120-1.130..... the goal is to reach for ~12-13% ABV... are there some tricks to getting this kind of tolerance out of your yeast?? of course I naturally assume a huge huge starter... in fact I was planning on doing a 1 gal batch of this stuff to use as the starter for it... any suggestions on getting the kind of content I'm lookin for out of this?? would it be prudent to try and ferment with a standard ale yeast like 1028 or something then, if needed, transfer to secondary and use a wine/mead/champagne yeast to get a bit further down (if needed of course)...

[Jimmy James]

I will let others with more experience at super-high gravity fermentation chime in on process, but as far as the starter goes your idea runs counter to what I understand to be best practice. Everything I read indicates your starter will be healthier if it comes from a lower gravity wort. Yeast that have recently been subjected to the hostile environment of high gravity and high alcohol conditions are depleted and not suitable for re-pitching.

[ColdAssHonky]

A big starter or a fresh cake would be necessary. Mash low.Lots of O2. Rouse the yeast frequently. Control fermentation temperatures. Be a lot more patient than I was with my first experiment and don't resort to champagne yeast until every other avenue has been explored.

Edited by MyBeerPants, 14 May 2009 - 12:18 PM.

[davelew]

Make a 5 gallon batch of 1.035 session ale, then rack that beer into a secondary on your brewday, and drain your boil kettle onto the yeastcake left on the bottom of the 1.035 fermenter. Use a blowoff tube.Put the fermenter in a water bath, and add a quart of ice twice a day to keep the temp below 70 when it's vigorously fermenting.

I'm looking at trying my hand at a monster beer... a Bourbon County Stout-like beer that will have a OG in the neighborhood of 1.120-1.130..... the goal is to reach for ~12-13% ABV... are there some tricks to getting this kind of tolerance out of your yeast?? of course I naturally assume a huge huge starter... in fact I was planning on doing a 1 gal batch of this stuff to use as the starter for it... any suggestions on getting the kind of content I'm lookin for out of this?? would it be prudent to try and ferment with a standard ale yeast like 1028 or something then, if needed, transfer to secondary and use a wine/mead/champagne yeast to get a bit further down (if needed of course)...

[stellarbrew]

If you meant a huge starter, as in the volume of the starter, I would definitely go along with that. Also, I would suggest aerating your wort very well prior to pitching your yeast. I have never done this myself, but I have read where people advise aerating prior to pitching, and then aerating again after a couple of hours.As far as yeast selection, I have very good luck using WLP001 in high gravity brews to get a good attenuation, like you desire. It seems to have a high alcohol tolerance, and is slow to flocculate, so it just keeps chewing and chewing on that high gravity wort until it rings every possible point out of it. It may take more than a month in primary to get there, but it doesn't seem to stall along the way.

[TonyBrown]

has anyone tried the WLP099 Super High Gravity yeast??? their site claims it can ferment up to 25%

[Mashman]

I do a big Imperial Stout every fall and age it for a year or so. It typically hits 13%+. I would mash lower than you think you need to, 147-149F. I would use some simple sugars in the grain bill, maybe 5-10% table sugar. I would use US05 or maybe WY1728, I've had good luck with both.Mashman

[TonyBrown]

I do a big Imperial Stout every fall and age it for a year or so. It typically hits 13%+. I would mash lower than you think you need to, 147-149F. I would use some simple sugars in the grain bill, maybe 5-10% table sugar. I would use US05 or maybe WY1728, I've had good luck with both.Mashman

I considered the 1728 since I've had good luck with it on the scotch ales that gravity in the 1.080-1.090 range...

[Mashman]

I considered the 1728 since I've had good luck with it on the scotch ales that gravity in the 1.080-1.090 range...

I've used 1728 in AMBW and RIS with great success. It won't go as low as US05, but it will work well. US05 is so cheap you could dump 2-3 packs in and have good success.Mashman

[ncbeerbrewer]

I think US-05 would be a great choice if you are looking for more attenuation as opposed to yeast character. I have brewed a few Imperials with it and its fermented very well. I am sure you know but if you want yeast character, look elsewhere for sure.

[realbeerguy]

has anyone tried the WLP099 Super High Gravity yeast??? their site claims it can ferment up to 25%

We used this yeast in our Club's Thomas Hardy clone with good results. Info as above apply: lots of O2, pitch a big starter ( making a small beer first a great idea), ferment at the lower end 66-68 dF, blow-off tube.

[Deerslyr]

Lot's of good suggestions, but for a different process, read this article from BYO. It's an article written by Jamil on how to keep your yeast going and obtain a high ABV. In his case, he was shooting for 21%.FWIW, I think the US 05 is a good candidate for this type of situation. I made a Blonde Ale as a "starter" and pitched an Old Ale with a starting gravity of around 1.085 on top of it. The vigorous fermentation was over in a matter of days. By day 2, the airlock was hardly bubbling and a gravity reading revealed that it had already dropped down to around 1.014.Good luck. Whatever way you go, the stresses you endure along the way will be rewarded in the end.

[MAZ]

Tony, I think you're starting to worry too much about this one. I've read that US-05 has an alcohol tolerance of 12% abv. Just pitch 3 packets (still cheaper than liquid!) and ferment around 65F. My last RIS (using US-05) came in at 10.5% easy-peasy.

[Yeasty Boy]

My basic practice involves pitching onto a normal strength beer's cake, pronto (e.g., brew beer, ferment for one week, brew big beer, rack first beer, chill and pitch cake immediately onto second beer), aerate the hell out of the wort before pitching, pitch cool (60°) re-O2 24hr later, then bring up to ferm temps (cooler is better as long as it's working) then warm up to the high end of that strains tolerance after four solid days of activity, leave for a week and check gravity. When it slows down if it isn't where I want it, start with the daily swirling to keep yeast suspended. If it doesn't come out like I want, I don't generally change the process, just the ingredients and/or expectations (e.g., higher IBU's to balance a bigger TG, more simple sugars, different yeast, etc.) Even notoriously flocculant English strains will go well into the low teens when treated this way.I've never gone for "monster alcohol" though. The biggest I've done was a 14% dark strong. Right tasty, but at that size it's a bit bigger in the finish than I like. Seems 12% is a good balance point for a drinkable and huge beer.

[ANUSTART]

Tony, I think you're starting to worry too much about this one. I've read that US-05 has an alcohol tolerance of 12% abv. Just pitch 3 packets (still cheaper than liquid!) and ferment around 65F. My last RIS (using US-05) came in at 10.5% easy-peasy.

I've had US-05 (then U-56) ferment out to 11.54%. FG was 1.012. I was going to bottle condition those, but they never carbed in the bottle. I think I asked too much of that little red packet. My records show 132 days in secondary, maybe that had something to do with it not carbing too.

[MtnBrewer]

Attenuation is going to be a bigger problem than alcohol tolerance. So all the usual techniques for high attenuation apply: mash low, limit non-fermentables such as crystal, use a yeast with good attenuation numbers, high pitch rate, oxygenate, supplement with sugar, etc. WL claims that WLP099 will get up to 25% but you have to incrementally feed it to get it that high. I'd just use a good flavorful yeast with reasonably high (mid-to-high 70s) attenuation and take care to produce as fermentable wort as possible.

[cavman]

I've had US-05 (then U-56) ferment out to 11.54%. FG was 1.012. I was going to bottle condition those, but they never carbed in the bottle. I think I asked too much of that little red packet. My records show 132 days in secondary, maybe that had something to do with it not carbing too.

Big beers are always harder to carb, best bet is to add fresh yeast at bottling as well as priming sugar. Hell I have a 12% BSG that needs to hit 6 volumes of CO2 to be ready for the methode champenoise.

[pods8]

has anyone tried the WLP099 Super High Gravity yeast??? their site claims it can ferment up to 25%

Yes, it takes some work though. I've tried to max in once feeding the fermentation, etc. and only got 18% out of it.Anyways for the gravity you are shooting at it doesn't take to much extra. As mentioned: Mash low, aerate well, pitch a good cake (best off a lower gravity or pale ale type beer), roust the yeast, AND BE PATIENT.If your recipe is using any non-grain sugars as fermentables as well you can wait to put those in till its fermenting strongly and has gotten into the 1.050-1.070 range and then feed those in. Its a little harder for yeast to build up a healthy fermentation in the higher gravity worts so holding off on any sugars you can till they are fermenting healthily away does help.

[toonces]

i haven't tried this, but i'm going to.

[Deerslyr]

i haven't tried this, but i'm going to.

Uhm... that's pretty much the same thing as the BYO article I posted written by Jamil, (See post #12 above), except the BYO article probably has better advice on how to acheive this. If you do this, and I hope you do, please let me know the results. I've been tempted... but am just too lazy to do this.