22 replies to this topic

[djinkc]

I'm getting ready to switch to a hybrid or CFC chiller for brews with pellets. During the hot ground water months I'll recirculate ice water through it. I had been using an IC so my hoses and pump were only used for preboil - EHERMS and recirculating. I've been running about 4 gallons of hot water through everything mid brew and putting it away. Today I decided to deep clean everything with recirculating PBW. That wasn't pretty.I know a lot will recirculate towards the end of the boil to sanitize which I plan to do. What are you doing to clean afterward - obviously my 4 gallon rinse isn't going to to the trick. Other than PBW and a hot water rinse, any suggestions?

[BrewerGeorge]

I used to use a Chillzilla before I switched to the pumped IM. I was NEVER able to find a cleaning regime that would get everything out. No matter what I did, a good strong PBW would still bring more stuff out. The best thing I found was hot PBW followed by hot Starsan (discounting real acid cleaners). I would also bake the thing in the oven about once a year at 500F to carbonize some stuff.Bottom line, though, is that you can still be safe as long as you run enough hot wort though the thing to sanitize it before you start cooling.

[MyaCullen]

I used to use a Chillzilla before I switched to the pumped IM. I was NEVER able to find a cleaning regime that would get everything out. No matter what I did, a good strong PBW would still bring more stuff out. The best thing I found was hot PBW followed by hot Starsan (discounting real acid cleaners). I would also bake the thing in the oven about once a year at 500F to carbonize some stuff.Bottom line, though, is that you can still be safe as long as you run enough hot wort though the thing to sanitize it before you start cooling.

anyone remember dagomike's thread on why not to use a plate chiller?

[djinkc]

anyone remember dagomike's thread on why not to use a plate chiller?

I think whenever he did a deep cleaning with it crud came out. I traded an unused shirron with blktre for a love controller. I never trusted that I could get it clean. He's a happy camper with it so far. I figured 3/8" copper tubing would be easier to clean. The plan with pellets is to whirlpool at flameout and chill inline to the kettle off the cone. My thinking is at worst my brewday will be the same time. No post chill settling = extra cleanup time maybe. I don't get anything resembling a cone with the IC because of the cold break - and taking about a 15% system loss when I dump the sludge from the kettle. Plus maybe I can quit using the paint strainer pellet bag. A lot of brewers I respect have no problem with cold break in the fermenter - which is hopefully all I should end up with. Anyway, I have almost everything from retired equipment to make it - might as well give it a shot.

[chadm75]

You guys may or may not know I've been wrestling with some of these same issues you guys are talking about. I was using an IC and siphoning out of my brew kettle leaving trub and hot break behind. This method resulted in getting me very clear wort going into the fermenter. But I'm always wanting to improve my process and as such, I've invested in a Shirron plate chiller and a HopBlocker from Blichmann. My concerns with these two new additions to my brewery brought up new issues to get around. 1) Santizing/cleaning the chiller and 2) keeping as much hop material out of the chiller/fermenter. I'm happy to report that both the chiller and HopBlocker did their job and so far, I'm happy with my new additions. I sanitized the chiller by running hot wort through it for about 15 seconds before turning on the counterflow water. The Shirron plate chiller took my wort from 200+ degrees to about 90 degrees in 10 minutes. I was using my IC as a pre-chiller as it sat in a bucket full of ice. I also decided on the first batch, I'd use whole leaf hops. This worked great with HopBlocker. I'm extremely happy with the results using my HB. I would say that it kept out 98% of the hops from flowing into the chiller/fermenter. And by using the dip tube, it left VERY little wort in the kettle. I cleaned my chiller by using a backflush attachment I built for $6 and it seemed to flush everything out. But who the hell really know with those plate chillers?!All is all, I'm a happy brewer so far!

[Deerslyr]

When I started I was using a hand-me-down CFC made of copper and garden hose. I then picked up a plate chiller. I don't think I'm happy with it. I'm considering going back to the original CFC. It just seems like too much of a PITA without getting it chilled down enough. <sigh> Why is it so hard to find a decent regimen that works?

[chadm75]

I'm considering going back to the original CFC. It just seems like too much of a PITA without getting it chilled down enough. <sigh> Why is it so hard to find a decent regimen that works?

I hear you about the regimen...I'm never happy! I imagine I'll see much better results from my chiller come the winter when the ground water temps go back down. Maybe I'm speaking too soon but so far, I'm happy with my plate chiller.

[SchwanzBrewer]

I use a Shirron Wort Plate chiller. I haven't had any problems with crud building up in it, really. First thing on brew day, I make a 5 gallon bucket of starsan.I take my garden hose and use the jet spray setting and squirt water through the chiller for about 30 seconds in each direction. Usually the first bit that comes out is a bit cloudy, but then its a crystal clear stream.Next, I put the chiller in the starsan and make sure all the air is out and let it sit there while I brew. I put all the hoses I need in there too except one that takes the hot water to the mash tun.When its time to chill I take out the hoses and the chiller and dump the starsan out of it. Its always clear. After that I let the first bit of wort coming from the kettle spill off before I fill start filling the carboy.When Im done I spray it out with the hose again and let it dry upside down so it drains well.No infections yet.Cheers,RichEdit: I fill my 120 qt cooler with ice water and pump that through the chiller when using it. Gets the wort cool enough everytime, first try.

Edited by BewbieBrewer, 04 August 2010 - 12:48 PM.

[BrewerGeorge]

I use a Shirron Wort Plate chiller. I haven't had any problems with crud building up in it, really. ...

Have you ever tried running hot PBW through it?I used the CFC for years and never had an infection, either, but I could always get crud out with hot PBW or Oxy. Personally, I think people make too big a deal about this crud - as long as there are no infections why worry about it, IMO? Some people seem to care, though.

[tag]

I backflush my plate chiller right after use and then pump hot PBW through it for 30 minutes. I use the PBW anyway to clean the pumps and hoses so it's not any added work.For sanitation I either fill it with StarSan or bake it in the oven. 285F for 3 hours will sterilize it per John Palmer in How To Brew.

[SchwanzBrewer]

Have you ever tried running hot PBW through it?I used the CFC for years and never had an infection, either, but I could always get crud out with hot PBW or Oxy. Personally, I think people make too big a deal about this crud - as long as there are no infections why worry about it, IMO? Some people seem to care, though.

I haven't used a cleaner on it, just high pressure from the hose, then into the sanitizer.Cheers,Rich

[Deerslyr]

I haven't used a cleaner on it, just high pressure from the hose, then into the sanitizer.Cheers,Rich

Do you circulate sanitizer through it???

[SchwanzBrewer]

Do you circulate sanitizer through it???

Yeah, I make a five gallon bucket of starsan, then I dunk it it there, get all the air out, and let it sit for the better part of my brew day before I use it.If anything was stuck in there the blast of water from the hose clears it out with high pressure, and I do that in both ends to make sure. I used it 5 times now and not had any problems. I store it in its own drawer in my plastic brewing chest so dust and stuff doesn't get in.Im pretty anal about cleaning and sanitizing so I dont get infections.Cheers,Rich

[tag]

I haven't used a cleaner on it, just high pressure from the hose, then into the sanitizer.Cheers,Rich

Yeah, I make a five gallon bucket of starsan, then I dunk it it there, get all the air out, and let it sit for the better part of my brew day before I use it.If anything was stuck in there the blast of water from the hose clears it out with high pressure, and I do that in both ends to make sure. I used it 5 times now and not had any problems. I store it in its own drawer in my plastic brewing chest so dust and stuff doesn't get in.I'm pretty anal about cleaning and sanitizing so I don't get infections.Cheers,Rich

I'm confused, if you don't clean your chiller, how can you say that you are anal about cleaning? Rinsing does not = cleaning.I highly recommend cleaning your chiller with hot PBW after each use.

[chadm75]

I've got the same Shirron chiller and have used it three times. I rinse it after each use by hooking it up to the utility sink and blasting hot water through both the wort in/out for about five minutes. Then I let it dry and store it. Then when I go to use it again, I make a bucket of santized water and dunk it in there for about an hour. No issues so far but my sample size is admittedly small...

[SchwanzBrewer]

I've got the same Shirron chiller and have used it three times. I rinse it after each use by hooking it up to the utility sink and blasting hot water through both the wort in/out for about five minutes. Then I let it dry and store it. Then when I go to use it again, I make a bucket of santized water and dunk it in there for about an hour. No issues so far but my sample size is admittedly small...

That is essentially what I do too. High pressure water flow is just as good at cleaning as chemicals some times. Ever use a pressure washer?Cheers,Rich

[djinkc]

Thanks for the tips guys. I'll put the CFC together this weekend. And probably run some PBW or oxy + TSP to clean. I'm curious if I'll need to use the pump to drain the kettle or if gravity will work. Guess a dry/wet run would be in order..........

[drewseslu]

Here's the thing, plate-style heat exchangers tend to be extremely difficult to thoroughly clean. I have taken one apart after two hours of 170 degree caustic solution CIP that was still mostly caked in crud. It took lots of elbow grease and an acid cycle to get it completely clean. Granted, the HX had seen lots of use, but it was flushed with hot liquor (170dF water) between each brew, CIP'd for an hour halfway through the day and for at least and hour each night and each morning.At MBC, I would flush the HX setup (two Therminators in line) between each brew, and CIP each night and morning of brewday for at least 45 minutes and sometimes longer. Was that overkill, possibly, but it is hard to say.

[djinkc]

Here's the thing, plate-style heat exchangers tend to be extremely difficult to thoroughly clean. I have taken one apart after two hours of 170 degree caustic solution CIP that was still mostly caked in crud. It took lots of elbow grease and an acid cycle to get it completely clean. Granted, the HX had seen lots of use, but it was flushed with hot liquor (170dF water) between each brew, CIP'd for an hour halfway through the day and for at least and hour each night and each morning.At MBC, I would flush the HX setup (two Therminators in line) between each brew, and CIP each night and morning of brewday for at least 45 minutes and sometimes longer. Was that overkill, possibly, but it is hard to say.

Yup, it's taken me a while to commit to an alternate chilling system from the IC. Hopefully the CFC will do what I want.I still wonder if having a small plate chiller sitting in an ultrasonic bath while CIP would help. Never tried but I don't think the traded Shirron would have fit in it anyway.

[drewseslu]

Couldn't hurt. Speaking of the ultrasonic...I read an article last week that touched on a vibrating mash, the premise being that the vibrations would facilitate greater water penetration into the grain particles and the liberation of the grains contents into the greater mash. Pretty neat idea.