20 replies to this topic

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

I've seen some confusion in the past so I'm hoping this thread can put an end to it.Imagine you are laying on the ground looking up the twine - which way should the hop plant be trained to grow?

[Greatfookin]

Looking up, but facing the thread, or behind it????? Seriously, the bine follows the sun, from East to West. Overnight they come around to await the suns rising, and follow it all day.12 oclock is North, 6 oclock is South. So clockwise is the natural way.That is assuming they have a full Southern exposure like mine, being on the North border of my property on the fence.

[shmgeggie]

I don't get the question. The hops are perfectly capable of climbing the twine without any help. Just let them do their thing.

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

Looking up, but facing the thread, or behind it????? Seriously, the bine follows the sun, from East to West. Overnight they come around to await the suns rising, and follow it all day.12 oclock is North, 6 oclock is South. So clockwise is the natural way.That is assuming they have a full Southern exposure like mine, being on the North border of my property on the fence.

Good one - so lying on the ground that would be counter-clockwise I think...

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

I don't get the question. The hops are perfectly capable of climbing the twine without any help. Just let them do their thing.

It's mentioned on a lot of websites - I'm sure most of the time they do this naturally but sometimes I'm guessing they don't.

[RommelMagic]

Yes, if you were on the ground looking up, it would be counter-clockwise. If you are normal and standing next to your hops, it would go from the right, then toward you, then to the left, then behind the wire/rope/twine, and to the right and repeat. Or maybe you're flying or hovering, in which case you're looking down at your hops and they would grow clockwise.

[RommelMagic]

I don't get the question. The hops are perfectly capable of climbing the twine without any help. Just let them do their thing.

Yes they can and will do their thing, however sometimes they miss the wire/rope/twine altogether and just go. If you miss it for a couple days or so, you could have a three foot section of bine growing where ever the hell it wanted to.

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

Yes, if you were on the ground looking up, it would be counter-clockwise. If you are normal and standing next to your hops, it would go from the right, then toward you, then to the left, then behind the wire/rope/twine, and to the right and repeat. Or maybe you're flying or hovering, in which case you're looking down at your hops and they would grow clockwise.

ppffffttt - normal

[chuck_d]

They vines should tell you which way as they twirl following the sun. They lean towards the sun and follow it while also growing upwards and then sort of twirl back during the night to get ready for the next sunrise.Edit: Huh, I'll have to grab some pics of my camera, they aren't already posted.

Edited by chuck_d, 07 May 2009 - 07:08 PM.

[Zulu]

Bine in Right hand , go over the rope towards the left and coil round back , clockwise if looking down from top , anti clock if looking up from base.Some do need help to find the rope

[stellarbrew]

The vine following the sun doesn't really tell you whether it grows clockwise or counter-clockwise. If you are looking from the above, the vines growing from East to West (as the sun) would wrap clockwise if they passed to the South of the string, morning to night. If they passed to the North of the string, morning to night they would wrap counter-clockwise. However, if you are in the Northern Hemisphere, the Sun will rise and set South of the East-West axis, which should cause the vine to head South-East in the morning, meaning it will wrap clockise when looking from the top. If you are in the Southern hemisphere, it seems they would wrap counter-clockwise, as seen from above, since the sun will rise and set North of the East West axis. If you are at the equator, all bets are off.

[ColdAssHonky]

Edited by MyBeerPants, 08 May 2009 - 10:05 AM.

[denny]

I've seen some confusion in the past so I'm hoping this thread can put an end to it.Imagine you are laying on the ground looking up the twine - which way should the hop plant be trained to grow?

Whatever way it wants to go....not a big deal.

[JimInNJ]

Everywhere they tell you "clockwise" which is totally useless information because nowhere do they tell you "looking up" or "looking down".It is perfectly logical to interpret the statement as being from the bine's perspective, which is looking up. But the bine actually spirals counter-clockwise from it's perspective as it goes up the string.I look at it this way: The people who say "clockwise" and smile like they just told you something very useful are really not all that bright. Sort of like when you shout across a river to a blonde asking how to get to the other side and she says "you already are on the other side." So I just assume they are standing there looking down at a little plant and to them it looks like it is going clockwise, so they say clockwise. If these same people were looking up at a huge plant they would probably say counter-clockwise. Heck, press them on the issue and they will probably tell you it goes clockwise until it reaches eye-level and then reverses and goes counter-clockwise the rest of the way up.Sorry for the rant. Just a pet peeve of mine. So, to answer the OP's question: Counter-clockwise looking up and clockwise looking down.- Jim

[NomNomHopzinator]

So what if I live on the other side of the equator....like in Australia? Will they go the opposite way like the toilette water?

[Deerslyr]

+1... This is the best depiction. As you are looking at the twine straight on, the bine is going cross over the bine and reach up. When it makes that pass in front of you, it's going to go from the bottom, which would be your right hand side and cross up to your left hand side. Bottom right to top left of the box before it makes the turn and does the same thing. It makes its way around the twine in a clockwise fashion. If it were not climbing and you flattened it out, it would look like it is coiling in a clockwise fashion. Hope this all makes sense now. The bine will show you which way it wants to go. You just need to be gentle with it and help it along the way.

[chuck_d]

The vine following the sun doesn't really tell you whether it grows clockwise or counter-clockwise. If you are looking from the above, the vines growing from East to West (as the sun) would wrap clockwise if they passed to the South of the string, morning to night. If they passed to the North of the string, morning to night they would wrap counter-clockwise. However, if you are in the Northern Hemisphere, the Sun will rise and set South of the East-West axis, which should cause the vine to head South-East in the morning, meaning it will wrap clockise when looking from the top. If you are in the Southern hemisphere, it seems they would wrap counter-clockwise, as seen from above, since the sun will rise and set North of the East West axis. If you are at the equator, all bets are off.

I hate using the terms clockwise & counter-clockwise for describing this. It's a two-dimensional description of a three-dimensional intertwining of strings. In the northern hemisphere, which is where zymological is, they "follow the sun". Here's an example of an Oregon publication using this same language to describe what "clockwise" means. https://www.crannoga.../HopsManual.pdf I don't know exactly what happens in the southern hemisphere, but I was responding to Zymological's question pertaining to New Hampshire. Hops don't grow at the equator so that doesn't matter.Thanks for posting the pics MyBeerPants, I was about to link to your post in my hops thread where I mentioned that's the best picture I could find, even on a page where the text said "clockwise" it had a drawing of it going in the opposite direction, ugh.

[stellarbrew]

I hate using the terms clockwise & counter-clockwise for describing this. It's a two-dimensional description of a three-dimensional intertwining of strings. In the northern hemisphere, which is where zymological is, they "follow the sun". Here's an example of an Oregon publication using this same language to describe what "clockwise" means. https://www.crannoga.../HopsManual.pdf I don't know exactly what happens in the southern hemisphere, but I was responding to Zymological's question pertaining to New Hampshire. Hops don't grow at the equator so that doesn't matter.Thanks for posting the pics MyBeerPants, I was about to link to your post in my hops thread where I mentioned that's the best picture I could find, even on a page where the text said "clockwise" it had a drawing of it going in the opposite direction, ugh.

I understood what you were saying. I was just reasoning it out in my own head, so I decided to add my own little analytical rant as I was thinking about it, to be more precise. Most people would only think of the sun rising in the East and setting in the West. To describe the helical growth path a vine would follow if it were to grow toward the sun, you would need to consider whether the vine would follow the sun on the North side of the string or the South side of the string, because each these two courses would cause opposite helical directions of growth. I haven't a clue what actually happens in reality, whether in the Northern hemisphere, the Southern hemisphere, or in a climate-controlled greenhouse at the equator. I was just verbalizing a geeky thought process about the implications of a vine following the sun as it grows, and I wanted to point out that for the "follows the sun" description to describe the growth pattern, you would need to understand that the sun rises and sets to the South of the East-West line (assuming the Northern Hemisphere).

[chuck_d]

I understood what you were saying. I was just reasoning it out in my own head, so I decided to add my own little analytical rant as I was thinking about it, to be more precise. Most people would only think of the sun rising in the East and setting in the West. To describe the helical growth path a vine would follow if it were to grow toward the sun, you would need to consider whether the vine would follow the sun on the North side of the string or the South side of the string, because each these two courses would cause opposite helical directions of growth. I haven't a clue what actually happens in reality, whether in the Northern hemisphere, the Southern hemisphere, or in a climate-controlled greenhouse at the equator. I was just verbalizing a geeky thought process about the implications of a vine following the sun as it grows, and I wanted to point out that for the "follows the sun" description to describe the growth pattern, you would need to understand that the sun rises and sets to the South of the East-West line (assuming the Northern Hemisphere).

Yeah, I guess just the physical movement of the hops vine is what I was getting at. My hops grow on the window sill in my office so I have literally watched the vines move over the course of a day and they end up with a curvature that dictates which way to twist them. I actually had to train mine the wrong way at first for support until they were long enough to wrap around the twine in the correct direction because of the angle at which the sprout grew compared to my twine. I just did some reading up and I found an Australian site that says to train them "counter-clockwise" but I also found several pictures of Aussies growing them and training them in the same direction that I train mine. I guess maybe that Aussie hops growing site got confused about the whole "what does clockwise really mean" thing (or do clocks spin backwards down under just like the toilets, kidding, toilets go based on the stream not the spin of the Earth). And maybe hops don't "follow the sun" down under.

[JimInNJ]

According to Wikipedia, which we know is always right:The rotation of the shoot tip during climbing is autonomous, and does not (as sometimes imagined) derive from the shoot following the sun around the sky – the direction of twist does not therefore depend upon which side of the equator the plant is growing. This is shown by the fact that some bines always twine clockwise, including runner bean (Phaseolus coccineus) and bindweed (Convolvulaceae), while others twine anticlockwise, including French bean (Phaseolus vulgaris) and climbing honeysuckles (Lonicera species).- Jim