11 replies to this topic

[3rd party JKor]

With all the emphasis on late hopping recently, I'm wondering if anyone has taken it to the logical extreme and just added all the hops with like 5-10 minutes left in the boil? Just chuck in a pound or two in the last few minutes to cover everything. The biggest problem seems to be judging the actual IBUs you would get with this approach. I don't know if the IBU calcs in programs like ProMash are suited to the task.

[djinkc]

Brewed 10 gallons of black ale today. 1.9 oz of Magnums and 9 oz of Mt. Hood. All first wort hop. I've done quite a few that way and been happy with the results. I think the FWH adds another dimension of flavor and aroma. But others think there is no aroma with that addition. Makes for a very easy brew day. Today was keg cleaning, keg filling, fermenter cleaning during the brew session so I had somewhere to ferment. Not messing with hop additions during the boil made it almost boring even with the other cellar stuff. Try it sometime.

[MyaCullen]

good questionI am not sure exactly why the calculators wouldn't be up to the task?getting good isomerization from the short amount of boil, would seemingly be more problematicI do DJ's method quite often no 60 minute addition at all, on;y FWH and aroma additons late late in the boil

[MakeMeHoppy]

I think the problem with one huge late addition is actually timing the hop addition for a program. Sure you add it with say 10 minutes left, but the wort is still at boiling temps for a while and gradually cools. This is not an issue with 60 minute additions because the extra time the hops are in the wort make little difference in the bittering.

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

I think the problem with one huge late addition is actually timing the hop addition for a program. Sure you add it with say 10 minutes left, but the wort is still at boiling temps for a while and gradually cools. This is not an issue with 60 minute additions because the extra time the hops are in the wort make little difference in the bittering.

yeah - after a while the extra time makes only a small difference but with everything tossed in with 10 minutes suddenly an extra 3-4 minutes at boiling temperatures creates a very noticeable difference in bitterness.

[3rd party JKor]

good questionI am not sure exactly why the calculators wouldn't be up to the task?getting good isomerization from the short amount of boil, would seemingly be more problematicI do DJ's method quite often no 60 minute addition at all, on;y FWH and aroma additons late late in the boil

Well, first, they are estimates and frankly the estimates are not very good. You can choose between three formulas in ProMash, all will give you significantly different results. Second, the IBU calculator in ProMash doesn't change linearly. According to the calculator the you get the same amount of IBUs for a given hop addition if you add them anywhere from 6 minutes to 10 minutes, then at 11 minutes IBUs jump 30%. It wouldn't be too difficult to get the actual formulas and calculate it, but it's still pretty inaccurate for these type of brews. When you put the Pliny hop schedule into ProMash you get like 280 IBU using the Rager formula, but the actual measured IBU level of Pliny is around 65.I guess it'll just be a case of trial and error.

[3rd party JKor]

I think the problem with one huge late addition is actually timing the hop addition for a program. Sure you add it with say 10 minutes left, but the wort is still at boiling temps for a while and gradually cools. This is not an issue with 60 minute additions because the extra time the hops are in the wort make little difference in the bittering.

Yes, it will be more sensitive to timing, but that has to be taken into account. My chilling system cools the wort pretty quickly (I don't remember exactly, but I think it gets under 100F in only a few minutes). My system is fairly repeatable, as is the case for most brewers, the difficulty would be transferring the recipe to another brewer's system. If someone else's system takes a few minutes longer to cool the wort, the beer could be very different.

[BrewerGeorge]

... When you put the Pliny hop schedule into ProMash you get like 280 IBU using the Rager formula, but the actual measured IBU level of Pliny is around 65.I guess it'll just be a case of trial and error.

That's just because the formula has no upper bound, but the physical solubility limit of iso-alpha acid is somewhere around 100ppm/100 IBU (varying a bit depending on temperature). I think Pliny measures pretty close to 100...

[3rd party JKor]

That's just because the formula has no upper bound, but the physical solubility limit of iso-alpha acid is somewhere around 100ppm/100 IBU (varying a bit depending on temperature). I think Pliny measures pretty close to 100...

Exactly. The formulas aren't very good. If you do some research into how they were derived, they are pretty thin on data.

[djinkc]

Brewed 10 gallons of black ale today. 1.9 oz of Magnums and 9 oz of Mt. Hood. All first wort hop. I've done quite a few that way and been happy with the results. I think the FWH adds another dimension of flavor and aroma. But others think there is no aroma with that addition. Makes for a very easy brew day. Today was keg cleaning, keg filling, fermenter cleaning during the brew session so I had somewhere to ferment. Not messing with hop additions during the boil made it almost boring even with the other cellar stuff. Try it sometime.

Sipping this now, had a little oatmeal in it too. Pretty happy with it

[earthtone]

I've definitely done a few with a huge FWH only and it's never dissapointed.

[jayb151]

I actually just made a beer with only Whirlpool hops added. I can't remember exactly but it was about 4 oz in a 10 gallon batch. I calculated the bitterness to be about 37 IBUs since isomerization still takes place even though the flame was cut. When I tasted the wort i knew it wasn't that bitter. It's still carbing in the bottle, but it seems to be pretty good, if not a little under bitter. BTW, I calculated my 30 minute whirlpool as a 20 minute addition bitterness wise. I have the feeling it's actually closer to 10 or 15.