4 replies to this topic

[EWW]

Still in the planning stages (but we have the barrel). We'd like to create something along the lines of Abbaye de St Bon-Chien. It sounds like some of us may do a vertical tasting later this week (but I'm not sure if I'll be able to make it). Anyone have any thoughts on the grist for this beer? Or words of advice when doing an 11% sour?

Edited by EWW, 15 June 2010 - 06:35 AM.

[strangebrewer]

I think you already know the challenge in making an 11% sour. The main one being that your primary souring bug pediococcus will crap out well before you get to 11%. Getting it above 6% I think would be an accomplishment. I know Wyeast says their Pedio is good to 9% but I've never heard of anybody achieving that ABV level.Only way I could see it off the top of my head is give the pedio a head start and follow it up with your favorite flavor of Brett. I feel like if you co-pitched with a Brett or Sacch strain the yeast would get the ABV to high to fast for the Pedio to do its thing. You'll have to add Brett at some point to finish the job and clean up after the pedio.All in all sounds like a cool project though

[EWW]

yep you it the issue exactly. Now the question is how to achieve the lactic acid needed to provide the sourness in a high gravity ale (without cheating and adding food grade lactic acid post fermentation)? If you do a straight pedio/lactic acid bacteria ferment and blend you push the OG of the main beer so high that it will stress the brett and sacch strains to a point that you risk a poor fermentation and blending is a true art form that I/we have not yet mastered ... if you pitch the lactic acid bacteria before adding the remaining bugs when do you add the bugs to pull off the proper balance in the finished beer? So many questions ... so many unknowns. Should be fun.

[strangebrewer]

I'm stabbing in the dark when it comes to the recipe but from what I read I'd aim for a cross between a flanders and an old ale. Since you are aiming to max out the bugs and critters I don't think you have to worry much about making a wort with long chain dextrines. I lean towards the flanders side of sour as I don't think you're aiming for lambic tart here just pleasantly sour with some complexity right?If it were me I might start by brewing a Flanders red/brown and then using the 2nd gen cake to ferment the impy flanders. The 2nd gen should have a lot more of the bacteria vs yeast. The question is, is the balance far enough off to give the bugs a big enough head start. If you want to be more scientific then pure cultures and starters is probably your best bet.

[BlKtRe]

Just a suggestion. What we are doing with our barrel to be able to get more than one type of beer is to inoculate bugs in stages. For example. We did a Sac strain on a BGS then inoculated with Lacto and Brett B. Then for successive beers we will add a different bug. This will allow us to start with a Cuvee followed by a Flanders or Lambic then end with a Abbaye de St Bon-Chien style. If you go all out with your bugs from the start then your barrel does not have as many options. I totally understand why you want to make that beer right away and its certainly not wrong to do so by any means.Might use around 8% Acidulated Malt to help achieve your Sourness.