15 replies to this topic

[JeffMeyers]

I've been brewing about 8 years now. Early on in my brewing days....I seemed to add a "little of this....little of that" when designing most of my ale recipes. I'd use a base malt and 3-5 specialty grains. Furthermore...the specialty grains tended to make up 10%-15% of the grist. My lager recipes were usually very simple with a base malt one...maybe two other ingredients. The lagers always turned out stellar. I was never really pleased with my efforts at brewing beers like APA's, IPA's, EPA's and such. They were good...but not as good as the better commercial examples. I decided to take a simpler approach to recipe design and it is working much better for me.For example...my IPA is 97% two row pale and 3% crystal 20. The hop schedule is simple too with a 60 minute, 15 minute and flameout addition. My APA is 96% two row and 4% crystal 40 with similar hop schedule to the IPA. The beers are coming out much "cleaner" and allowing the bitterness to come thru and hop flavor / aroma to take the front seat.I still use a few recipes (Oktoberfest, Dubbel) that are somewhat complex...b/c they work.

[djinkc]

I've gotten that way for some brews. Have an APA fermenting now that about 95% 2-Row and 5% Special Roast. Some still have a busy grain bills but at least it's for a reason now rather than the old shotgun approach.Isn't blue a lot easier on the eyes? Glad you made it over here.

[JeffMeyers]

Yes it is.....and a lot of familiar people on here too. Dejavu....

[passlaku]

I started to go this route a while back. I add a .5# of malted wheat to just about every style but tend to agree that simple seems to be better. I was amazed in last year's Zymurgy, the issue where they publish all the winning recipes, at how complex those grain bills were. The average recipe had 6 or so malts. The hop scheduling is still something I wrestle with. I add the 60 minute charge but is 30, 15, 10, 5, 2, flameout, all really necessary? I guess I need to study more recipes to figure out what is happening there.

[ChefLamont]

Yea I was just talking to our mutual friend Fred yesterday about this. I was saying that my pale recipe I have been working on just isnt snappy enough and the flavor and aroma dont come through like I want. That was his suggestion as well. Are you using American or other base malt? I think that is another thing. I love MO malt, but they maltiness of the base might be adding to the dulling down affect too.

[Jimmy James]

One of the first things I noticed when I got my copy of Brewing Classic Styles was how simple most of the recipes were, especially as far as the grain bill goes. The emphasis in that book is on fermentation, but all the recipes I've brewed from it turned out fantastic. Anyways, I agree wholeheartedly with this topic. Most of the beers I like to have on hand for knocking down a couple pints are simple with either emphasis on a particular malt like MO or Pils or with all the emphasis on the hops. For sippin beers I get a little more carried away with the grist sometimes, but not always.

[JeffMeyers]

Yea I was just talking to our mutual friend Fred yesterday about this. I was saying that my pale recipe I have been working on just isnt snappy enough and the flavor and aroma dont come through like I want. That was his suggestion as well. Are you using American or other base malt? I think that is another thing. I love MO malt, but they maltiness of the base might be adding to the dulling down affect too.

Fred tried my IPA and APA at the airshow a few weeks ago. I feel they are the best I've ever made and are as good or better than most commercial examples I can even get on draft.For the APA and IPA I'm using plane old Breiss 2 row pale. I used to use MO a lot more. For ME I think MO is too malty and can get in the way of the hops on an IPA or APA.

[JeffMeyers]

The hop scheduling is still something I wrestle with. I add the 60 minute charge but is 30, 15, 10, 5, 2, flameout, all really necessary? I guess I need to study more recipes to figure out what is happening there.

Yes...I've simplified my hop schedule too. Most are bittering, one flavor addition and one flameout / late addition. I've found that it gives me a better base to make adjustments on the next beer. By only having one 20 minute or 15 minute flavor addition.....I know if I want more flavor on the next batch....just adjust the qty's ...not trying to figure out which addition to change and by how much.

[MtnBrewer]

I think we all go through a phase in our brewing careers where we tend to add a lot of different ingredients for no particular reason. I know I did for sure. Let's face it, it's more fun that way. Some of us probably never come out of that phase. But I think most brewers evolve past that as you have. My philosophy now is that if you don't know why you're adding a particular ingredient, don't add it. Allow each ingredient in the recipe to add to the overall effect you're trying to create. Allow each one to "speak" and to be heard. Too many ingredients often only serves to clutter the flavor with noise and drown out some of the subtle aspects of the beer.

[SchwanzBrewer]

I have been pretty much just making proven recipes found on the forum so far. I am starting to want to design my own recipe. I have built up some hops stores, but I really don't know how they will taste. I am still tweaking my brewery so my process is standardized and all my shortcomings are known so I am thinking that maybe after two or three more beers I will start experimenting. I have fallen down the rabbit hole, and I see a lot of brewing in my future. Need more equipment!Cheers,Rich

[zymot]

I think you are more likely to find success going simple as opposed to complex. Use quality ingredients and if you process is solid, how can the beer come out bad?I like the challenge of going in both directions.I have a basic American Pale Ale that is88% base malt4% crystal 304% Munich4% Vienna60, 20, 5 and flame out hop additionsI recently did a SMaSH beer. Single Malt & Single Hop.The now classic JPA has all kinds of stuff going on, but the balance works. That is a great recipe.

Edited by zymot, 19 May 2010 - 10:42 AM.

[MakeMeHoppy]

I really like simple, I just made an add extract batch of hefeweisen, 6 lbs DME and 1 60 min hop addition. I also like Scottish Ale, 10 lb base grain, 4 oz roasted, 1 60 min hop addition. I think the simple beers let you really understand and taste the ingrediants. For example on the scottish ale I'll normally use Maris Otter, but will occasionally use 2 row just to see the difference. I also sometimes boil the first runnings to caramelize and sometimes not. You make a beer with 20 ingrediants, it's really hard to tell the difference.On thing I did change was my standard Pale Ale / IPA. Mainly base grain, crystal and the hops. However, I find I really like mixing at least 2 difference crystal malts to get a more complex flavor and color.

[Humperdink]

I think we all go through a phase in our brewing careers where we tend to add a lot of different ingredients for no particular reason. I know I did for sure. Let's face it, it's more fun that way. Some of us probably never come out of that phase. But I think most brewers evolve past that as you have. My philosophy now is that if you don't know why you're adding a particular ingredient, don't add it. Allow each ingredient in the recipe to add to the overall effect you're trying to create. Allow each one to "speak" and to be heard. Too many ingredients often only serves to clutter the flavor with noise and drown out some of the subtle aspects of the beer.

I would agree 100%. Every ingredient I put in a beer is to create a desired ending beer flavor. It takes time to learn, but that's brewing and it's fun.I still need work on hops though. I think that's harder for me to create a flavor memory/profile to use in a recipe with accuracy.

[EWW]

I'm also going to have to agree with Mtn on this one. I've started using ESB malt as my base malt for almost all my ales. I find it to be a good compromise between plain us 2 row and MO...enough malt character to add a little complexity, but not enough to bring the beer out of balance. Most the beers I've been brewing are just base malt, a little wheat, crystal xyz, and 1-2 specialty malts for character. With hops I never blend more then 3 varieties in any beer. Flavors are crisper this way IMO.

[JeffMeyers]

I think we all go through a phase in our brewing careers where we tend to add a lot of different ingredients for no particular reason. I know I did for sure. Let's face it, it's more fun that way. Some of us probably never come out of that phase. But I think most brewers evolve past that as you have. My philosophy now is that if you don't know why you're adding a particular ingredient, don't add it. Allow each ingredient in the recipe to add to the overall effect you're trying to create. Allow each one to "speak" and to be heard. Too many ingredients often only serves to clutter the flavor with noise and drown out some of the subtle aspects of the beer.

Oh...I THOUGHT I had good reasons! Like.....a little biscuit flavor....a little color here....a little roast here....a little bread here....better head retention here...some caramel here....some plum / raisin here...blah...blah....

[ChefLamont]

Oh...I THOUGHT I had good reasons! Like.....a little biscuit flavor....a little color here....a little roast here....a little bread here....better head retention here...some caramel here....some plum / raisin here...blah...blah....

Its as if you are a mind reader!! haha Like Mtn said, we all have that t-shirt.