26 replies to this topic

[LiverDance]

I'm crafting a recipe to brew with a friend and he's looking for a smoked ale. I have taken a scotish 80/- shilling as my base recipe and i'm now left wondering how much peat malt to add to this 5gal recipe to get some somked flavor. Anybody out there have any experiences they would like to share? Cheers,LD

[nitroglycerin11]

Honestly, I would not add any. IMO peat has no place in beer and is only meant for making (scotch) whisk(e)y not even scotch ales. That being said, you can go with about 2 lbs of smoked malt and some chocolate malt (0.5 lb or so) and/or black patent (~0.1 lb).Take the above as only one opinion b/c I am sure there are plenty of supporters of peat malt use, but it is not to my liking in any style of beer and I do not feel it will give you the "smoke" you are looking for.

[djinkc]

.........how much peat malt......

None, I can't stand that stuff. Rauchmalt/smoked malt would be better IMO

[BrewerGeorge]

None, I can't stand that stuff. Rauchmalt/smoked malt would be better IMO

Ditto. 100%You want rauchmalt which is smoked with beech wood. Peat smoked malt is absolutely awful.Use between 20-30% rauchmalt for a good smokey base that won't overwhelm.

[LiverDance]

So what is it that makes peat malt so awful? I'm not sure if i'll have any other options, i'll have to check with my LHBS. I know they have peat malt though. Is there any other way to replicate a smoked flavor?

[BrewerGeorge]

So what is it that makes peat malt so awful? I'm not sure if i'll have any other options, i'll have to check with my LHBS. I know they have peat malt though. Is there any other way to replicate a smoked flavor?

It just tastes like ass- I mean ashtray. Rauchmalt tastes smokey, but it's a "foody" sort of smokiness. Peated malt tastes like burned ... peat, almost a burned rubber taste. It's really intended for making Scotch, and I have no idea how/why it got into homebrew recipes. If you want, you can listen to the Brewing Network episode on Smoked Beers and hear Jamil's explanation of why he thinks it's awful.

[BrewerGeorge]

One other thing to add:You'll want to plan for enough aging and possibly gelatin to get rid of the yeasty flavors as best you can. Yeast can taste a little "meaty" on its own. Add the smokiness to the meatiness and you've got beer that tastes like ham or bacon. Not a good thing.

[LiverDance]

LOL now that was funny. What's even funnier is that it's Jamil's 80/- shilling recipe that i'm using for the base and according to his book its sacrilege to put smoked malt in scottish ales! Shhh, don't tell! So if they don't have smoked malt, do i have other options?

[LiverDance]

I always thought if i could create a beer that tasted like bacon the world would be a better place

[MoreAmmoPlz]

I always thought if i could create a beer that tasted like bacon the world would be a better place

Had one at the Michigan summer beer festival a couple years ago. I wish I could remember who had it but it was late in the festival and I was headed into party mode.

[MAZ]

LD - you asked for some advice and you certainly received some strong opinions! Well, everyone is entitled to theirs and that's fine. But you are not making your beer for them - you're making it for you, so I say go for it. I've made a couple beers that sound like what you are looking for. Since this is your first attempt, I would go with only 2 ounces in your 5 gallon batch. This will give you a mild smokey flavor, one that compliments an 80/- well IMO. Trust me on this - I have a batch called Smokey 80 Shilling that I love... Marris Otter, Munich Malt, CaraMunich, 4 oz Roasted Barley, and 2 oz Peat Smoked. It's probably not to style (I don't care) but it tastes great.Peat smoked malt simply has a very strong flavor (of peat, go figure). A very little goes a long way and you can easily overdo it in a beer to the point where people will think it tastes terrible and you've ruined 5 gallons of perfectly good beer. Some people also think Lambics and other sour beers are terrible - I've heard descriptions like "that tastes like vomit" or my favorite "XXX beer tastes like ass" - OK dude, when was the last time you ate ass? In terms of what "belongs" in beer and what doesn't, let your own palate be your judge. Some especially manly brewers will tell you fruit has no place in beer, but some of the best beers I've ever had have fruit in them! As a homebrewer you can (and should) do whatever you want. But a good rule of thumb is "less is more." If you make a mistake, learn from it. My most recent learning experience - 1 oz of dried chamomile in a wit is WAY too much (I think it should have been 0.1 oz - d'oh!).

[armagh]

! So if they don't have smoked malt, do i have other options?

Papazian used to recommend something like Liquid Smoke, that was allegedly preservative free. Never tried it, so I can's say.

[MAZ]

I think the key words there are "used to" - keep in mind a lot of his advice came from the early days of homebrewing when they didn't have access to all the ingredients we have now.

[LiverDance]

Thanks MAZ i completely understand where your coming from. I value eveyone's opinon and do like to hear what everone has to say about there experiences, because it is what i ask for, but sometimes homebrewers are confined by the parameters of the LHBS. I've actually had another scottish ale kit from my LHBS which had peat malt in it and i liked it.

[Sidney Porter]

and I have no idea how/why it got into homebrew recipes.

I blame early versions of the bjcp, (I think). At some point the guidelines said that a 60,70,80 could have a very slight smokey flavor. I think that that homebrewers intrepreted that as that it should be a smoke beer, they also made the connection that if it is scotish it must be peat smoked. This would have been in the 80's when a lot of homebrewers and judges could get too many version of the commercial examples. I think that it then snowballed brewers and judges started expecting it because they didn't know any better.They have really scalled back this verbaige in the newer guidelines and I believe that they actually say that it is not appropriate.

[earthtone]

Hey LD have you checked at quinpool? I thought I saw a bag of rauchmalt tucked in the back about a month ago beside a bag of peat smoked malt. Might be gone now though... you never know with the quinpool store :Pgood luck on the smoky scotch!

[MAZ]

SP - I agree with that assessment. If we are talking about brewing to style, peat smoked malt isn't appropriate in any of the Scottish ales (even though those dark malty brews work well with smokey malt additions IMO).The 2008 BJCP language has definitely been rewritten for the Scottish 60/70/80 style...

Although unusual, any smoked character is yeast- or water-derived and not from the use of peat-smoked malts. Use of peat-smoked malt to replicate the peaty character should be restrained; overly smoky beers should be entered in the Other Smoked Beer category (22B) rather than here.

[LiverDance]

Turns out the LHBS does have smoked malt but i'm going to stick with the peat malt and see what happens. The kit i mentioned that they have has 4 oz in it so i'm also going to stick with that. What yeast would give you smoked character as mentioned above? The LHBS does have Wyeast 1728 but jamil's recipe calls for 1056.

[MAZ]

Oh boy, another can of worms... I think the verdict on 1728 being smokey is still out. I've never experienced that from that yeast. As Wyeast's site says, it can be estery when fermented warmer. It's also well suited for high alcohol brews.1056 is very clean of course, more forgiving in terms of esters and higher temps. IMO this makes it a good choice for a Scottish style brew - low esters, clean, something that lets the malts shine through.Either is a fine choice. Do you ever harvest yeast? Maybe your next planned recipe will guide your decision.

[LiverDance]

Good point. I'll definatley use 1056 again soon so that is the way to go.