14 replies to this topic

[SchwanzBrewer]

I'm thinking about brewing this this weekend, but I want to make sure I can get all the ingredients. If the LHBS doesn't have Cara Red, what would be a good substitute?Also, is there anything special I have to to to scale this down to 5 gal instead of 6 other than just some fractions?Cheers,Rich

[cj in j]

Instead of CaraRed, you can use CaraVienne -- similar enough. Or a Crystal/Caramel 20 would also work.

[jasonrobertcohen]

It all depends on the recipe drafter's rules, but you may find that a 6 gallon recipe was really intended for your 5 gallon fermenter. Because everyone's equipment and procedures are different, one can never assume a standard loss of wort after the boil is complete, therefore one can never know how to compensate for the loss by increasing the gravity of the recipe. As a result, no compensation is done at all for any final losses -- hop absorption, kettle loss, trub. Most people who try to avoid putting trub into the fermenter seem to lose 0.5 to 1.0 gallon on a 5 gallon batch, so recipes that quote 6 gallons seem to work very well. Publications will often document their recipe assumptions somewhere before you find the first recipe.jrc

[jasonrobertcohen]

Edit to above: (I really didn't answer your second question)If you plan to put EVERYTHING from your kettle into a 5 gallon fermenter, then multiplying the recipe by 5/6 would make sense.However if you are avoiding the trub and counting on removing the boiled hops, estimate your losses. For example, if you figure this will be 0.75 gallon, you will need to multiply the recipe by 5.75/6.0In form:fermenter volume + hop absorption loss + kettle/trub loss = cooled post boil volume5.0G + 0.25G + 0.5G = 5.75GThen adjust for the stated recipe:YOUR cooled post boil volume / RECIPE volume = ingredient adjustment multiplierIn this example: 5.75 / 6.0

[SchwanzBrewer]

This is probably going to be my first AG beer on my new equipment. I can handle making 6 gallons, but I'm not sure if the carboy is big enough, and all of the equipment is new, so I have no idea what the efficiency will be or how well it will work. I guess I could ferment in the bucket instead of a carboy, but I use a swamp bucket to cool the fermentation and I think the bucket is too big for the cooler.I'm heading to the LHBS to buy ingredients at lunch today.Cheers,Rich

[jasonrobertcohen]

This is probably going to be my first AG beer on my new equipment. I can handle making 6 gallons, but I'm not sure if the carboy is big enough, and all of the equipment is new, so I have no idea what the efficiency will be or how well it will work. I guess I could ferment in the bucket instead of a carboy, but I use a swamp bucket to cool the fermentation and I think the bucket is too big for the cooler.I'm heading to the LHBS to buy ingredients at lunch today.Cheers,Rich

In that case, I would go with the recipe as is. 75% efficiency is a good estimate for an untested AG setup and 6 gallons should give a little slack in case the kettle to ferm losses are greater. Worst case, you may have about half a gallon of wort that won't fit in your fermenter. Since this is your first time on the new equipment, have you accounted for the volume required prior to the boil? The recipe (and included AG instructions) call for extraction of 7.5G of sweet wort. To get to 6.0G, they're assuming a fairly moderate-to-high evaporation rate, even with a 90m boil. It does seem like a reasonable average starting point though, perhaps assuming the flame is coming from a turkey fryer or similar heat source.jrcEdit: Forgot to say: Best of luck! Relax and don't sweat the nitty gritty until you're reflecting back on your brew.

[SchwanzBrewer]

In that case, I would go with the recipe as is. 75% efficiency is a good estimate for an untested AG setup and 6 gallons should give a little slack in case the kettle to ferm losses are greater. Worst case, you may have about half a gallon of wort that won't fit in your fermenter. Since this is your first time on the new equipment, have you accounted for the volume required prior to the boil? The recipe (and included AG instructions) call for extraction of 7.5G of sweet wort. To get to 6.0G, they're assuming a fairly moderate-to-high evaporation rate, even with a 90m boil. It does seem like a reasonable average starting point though, perhaps assuming the flame is coming from a turkey fryer or similar heat source.jrcEdit: Forgot to say: Best of luck! Relax and don't sweat the nitty gritty until you're reflecting back on your brew.

Well, I'm back from the LHBS. I planned on adjusting for five gallons, but I wasn't reading my recipe and I was directing my brother to get some of the specialty grains so I went from memory and ended up getting enough grains for 6 gallons. So, I will follow the instructions for the recipe on the new set-up and see how it goes.I think you are spot on with respect to the boil and not having enough room in the fermentor. I am using a turkey fryer for the first time on beer. I am a bit apprehensive because this is my first all grain batch and I am going to batch sparge. Hopefully my buddy Joe can come over and walk me through it. I've read a whole bunch on the process and watched video's, but there is nothing like doing it for the first time.Thanks for all the advice! I would be grateful for any tips or tricks.Cheers,Rich

[Big Nake]

I found CaraRed once online and ordered it. The description said that it imparts a deep, saturated red color. I'm not sure if I expected something different, but it basically looked like something along the lines of a Crystal 40°L or CaraVienne/CaraMunich as CJ said. It does not seem to be something that is so unique that you couldn't use something else. For a very red color, I like Special B used with some Crystal 120°L. Good luck with the recipe... sounds nice.

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

75% efficiency is a good estimate for an untested AG setup and 6 gallons should give a little slack in case the kettle to ferm losses are greater.

I'm not so sure about this one. I think I only hit about 60% on my first AG brew. Now that I've got about 7 or 8 AG brews under my belt I'm up to mid 70s but that first batch was not that efficient.

[Thirsty]

For a very red color, I like Special B used with some Crystal 120°L. Good luck with the recipe... sounds nice.

I find melanoidin malt reddens up my beer as well, I like to include some in DIPAs to make them more attractive.

[Big Nake]

I find melanoidin malt reddens up my beer as well, I like to include some in DIPAs to make them more attractive.

Yes, I should've mentioned that too... a nice reddish tint comes from melanoidin along with that great maltiness.

[denny]

AFAIAC, there is no sub for carared. It has a unique flavor.

[harryfrog]

Just go for it! I'll be amazed if you end up with exactly 6 gallons or exactly the same gravity reading. Either way, beer is beer. Take a couple notes along the way (or write it down after you're done) and don't worry about screwing it up. I fly sparged my first AG batch with just some words of how to do it from the LHBS and I ended up making beer (it was MLPA btw and was damn good). Don't get too wrapped up in the details the first time around - a couple degrees here or there mash temp isn't going to make your beer go from beer to crap, 60 minutes mash time isn't an absolute, etc. etc. Use this as a learning experience to get to know your equipment, but most of all, enjoy it.

[SchwanzBrewer]

Thanks ya'll. They had Carared so I got that. Munich: There were 3 types of munich malt all with different lovibond #'s. I got the one with a lovibond 10. I just checked howtobrew.com, I guess its a good choice for a irish ale.I have a few more things I need to get together before brew day, I'm pretty stoked!Cheers,Rich

[beach]

Just go for it! I'll be amazed if you end up with exactly 6 gallons or exactly the same gravity reading. Either way, beer is beer. Take a couple notes along the way (or write it down after you're done) and don't worry about screwing it up. I fly sparged my first AG batch with just some words of how to do it from the LHBS and I ended up making beer (it was MLPA btw and was damn good). Don't get too wrapped up in the details the first time around - a couple degrees here or there mash temp isn't going to make your beer go from beer to crap, 60 minutes mash time isn't an absolute, etc. etc. Use this as a learning experience to get to know your equipment, but most of all, enjoy it.

This for sure. Have a good time. The only thing I'd add to this is calibrate your themo(s). I didn't do this on my first couple AG's and I found out I mashed way high. But, it was still beer. Beach