19 replies to this topic

[McNuggets]

I'm working on my own recipe for this beer, built from a recipe on the net and their info:

9.2% abv • 195º L • 25º plato • 22 oz / 1/6 keg 2-row pale malt / dark caramel malt / vanilla bean / lactose sugar / kettle hops: columbus / aroma hops: horizon

14.75 lbs Pale Ale malt 3.25 lbs Crystal/Caramel malt 120L 1.0 lbs Lactose (milk sugar) 0.75 oz Columbus hops (14% AA - 60 minutes) 1.00 oz Horizon hops (12% AA - 5 minutes) 4.00 oz natural vanilla extract (at bottling or kegging) 5 Gallons Looking at the SG (25 plato, 1.106) on the bottle, and the ABV which is 9.2 in the US , the FG is 1.036 and attenuation is 64%. I'm thinking mash at 154 or higher, maybe use wYeast 1099 or 1084 (lower attenuating strains) and caramelize the lactose...maybe cut down on the vanilla to start with too, and adjust to taste. Opinions...

[jammer]

I'm working on my own recipe for this beer, built from a recipe on the net and their info: 14.75 lbs Pale Ale malt 3.25 lbs Crystal/Caramel malt 120L 1.0 lbs Lactose (milk sugar) 0.75 oz Columbus hops (14% AA - 60 minutes) 1.00 oz Horizon hops (12% AA - 5 minutes) 4.00 oz natural vanilla extract (at bottling or kegging) 5 Gallons Looking at the SG (25 plato, 1.106) on the bottle, and the ABV which is 9.2 in the US , the FG is 1.036 and attenuation is 64%. I'm thinking mash at 154 or higher, maybe use wYeast 1099 or 1084 (lower attenuating strains) and caramelize the lactose...maybe cut down on the vanilla to start with too, and adjust to taste. Opinions...

Is it just me or is that a LOT of vanilla extract? I have a pretty good sized bottle of extract, and its only 2 oz capacity. that would mean two bottles per 5 gallons. Seems like a lot to me.

[Rick]

I have never tried this beer, but that's a TON of crystal 120! I have heard that using anything over 1.0 lb becomes quite cloying and harsh (source: Jamil Show - Irish Red.) I would split it up with some other crystal malts and maybe some Carafa Special II to bump that color up to where you want it.As for the vanilla extract, add about half of what you want. You can always add more late

[McNuggets]

Well, I've yet to try this, but the reviews I've heard is that this is a very sweet beer, with a heavy vanilla component. But 4 ounces of vanilla is a lot IMHO. The crystal amount, I'm not too sure about.

[strangebrewer]

You could always go vanilla beans instead of extract and add them at secondary. That way you can taste the beer periodically and once it hits the vanilla level desired you can rack it off the beans. Vanilla is a lot like oak in that if you add to much the only thing you can do to fix it is blend.

[ChefLamont]

Agreed. That is WAY too much crystal and vanilla.Crystal: I would use mostly C-60, a bit of C-9, and a touch of C-120. To me C-60 tastes like caramel, C-90 is dark caramel almost to the point of overdone, and C-120 has a roast, burnt caramel, dried dark fruit taste. I dont think all C-120 will get you where you want to go. I would go with something in the neighborhood of 1# C-60, 0.5# C-90, and 0.25# C-120. Remember, you are getting a lot of sweetness from the lactose. You really just want flavor (and some sweetness) from the C-malt.Vanilla: Strange is right. Vanilla can be way overdone and then there is nowhere really to go. The only way I would suggest extract is if you are kegging and you could dose it a little at a time to dial it in where you want it. Add a little, mix, taste, repeat as necessary. When I use vanilla (which I love by the way), I use whole beans. Good fresh ones are cheap on ebay. 1 bean in 5 gal will get you a nice hint. 2 will get you a somewhat solid taste, and 3 will get you a good firm vanilla flavor. So if you really want a vanilla presence like it seems, I would go with 3-4 good fresh beans. On brew day, split, scrape, section, and soak in just enough vodka to cover. Toss the whole thing in secondary

[McNuggets]

Keep in mind that this is a very sweet beer, it should be like drinking a dessert. I'm reluctant to change the mix from what the brewer listed, so I'd like to stick with crystal 80/120. There should be a bit of heavily crystallized sugar taste in there. The vanilla is just more convenient in extract form to dial in to taste - top quality bourbon vanilla extract.I've never found lactose to be that sweet myself....

[beerbaron]

I would replace some of that crystal with carapils. I like the idea of using beans instead of extract. At flame out you should hit the wort with a torch!!!!!

[Thirsty]

I'm working on my own recipe for this beer, built from a recipe on the net and their info:

I think the first thing is to check the validity of where the recipe came from. If it is a good source and maybe got good reviews, then sticking pretty tight to the original may be the best bet. I brewed an Ommegang abbey clone from BYOs 150 clones a couple of years ago, and that recipe has like 20% aromatic, and 20% special roast, I thought it was going to be way overboard in flavor, but it worked and well, came out real good. With that being said, I echo everyone's comments so far and think that is a huge amount of dark crystal and vanilla. (sorry about the contradiction)It just seems so out of balance, but the idea again is to make a supersweet beer, and it probably will be cloying, and I bet need some aging. But again, a recipe is a recipe, and in my eyes the best way to improve on any recipe is to brew the original to spec, and then dial from there what you like and don't like. Good luck on this one, and I if you make it, please follow with some notes down the road!!

[McNuggets]

It was just a working recipe built from the ST website info. It really doesn't have any credibility, as I don't think anybody has ever brewed it. Basically, a starting point.This is a real love hate beer if you look at beeradvocate.

[Thirsty]

It was just a working recipe built from the ST website info. It really doesn't have any credibility, This is a real love hate beer if you look at beeradvocate.

Ahh, OK, I thought you got a base recipe off the net to start with. I am very intrigued now and am going to have to seek out a bottle of this.

[Thirsty]

Alright, so I scored a bottle of this. Will be waiting til thurs night to crack it open tho

[3rd party JKor]

Definitely an insane amount of vanilla.What's 195°L? That has to be a typo.

[McNuggets]

Ahh, OK, I thought you got a base recipe off the net to start with. I am very intrigued now and am going to have to seek out a bottle of this.

What I meant was that the recipe, which I did pick off the net, is just built from their info. But it's completely unproven, so I wouldn't trust it as far as I could throw it. But it does seem to be a good starting point. https://www.fermenta...nt/view/330/58/ My problem is that I can't easily buy this beer to judge for myself. Looking forward to see what you think of it. I was thinking that 195 L is a typo too.

[Thirsty]

But it's completely unproven, so I wouldn't trust it as far as I could throw it.

This I think is an understatement. The very first thing is there is a guy making opinions of a recipe based off of something he hasn't even tasted! Second his rationale, to me, is out of whack.

Start with the 195L. That does not appear anywhere, where he got that from is beyond me, this is what the bottle label actually looks like:

So the 195L is something that maybe was a ST typo and he carried it forward, that should trigger that he hasn't a clue. MAybe there is a pale chocolate included somewhere that is 195L, but that would be just a wildassed guess by anyone.

Then he says they do not include any other specialty malts besides dark crystal? This is a RIS, you either need roasted malts, or you will not end up with a RIS! (I had a beer last summer made by a 25 year vetHBer who is also a master judge, he made a porter from only pale malt, and boiled it down to achieve color and roast, it was delicious, and he said it was pseudo-traditional, but I dont think this practice can produce RIS level roast)

So his answer is to jack up the highly flavorful c-120 to over 3#s to achieve color? That is ridiculous (again my opinion).

Then says to lets add a healthy dose of lactose to sweeten this up? I think there will be a tad bit of cloying already with 3#s of crystal! Then he looked up profiles of a milk stout to guess IBUs- and chose the low end! Said he was unsure of why there was aroma involved and tried to keep the IBUs down- this is a friggin RIS! One with a 25P OG to boot! My guess is the IBUs will be clocking 55-70, and some aroma would be welcome with such complexity.

Whew that felt good! Sorry about the rant. Now I really want to break this bottle open and try it. After thurs night I will write down some tasting notes between me and my buddy and try to figure out something close. My first guess will be a pretty standard RIS recipe, with probably a bit more c-80 then normal (.5-1#) and some lactose. Yanking the plug on fermentation at about 1.030-1.035 will probably do a lot as well.

[McNuggets]

Some of those ST bottles do say 195L:https://www.southerntierbrewing.com/for%20download%20page/downloads_cremebrulee.htmlAlso, somebody did ask the brewer directly, who said there is no roasted malts in there, just crystal....I don't think this is an RIS, I think it's more of a dessert beer. It wouldn't surprise me if the IBU's are in the low 30's.

[3rd party JKor]

Southern Tier calls it an Imperial Milk Stout, which obviously makes more sense than a RIS. Still, I have a hard time believing a dark crystal, no matter how much, can really produce roasted malt flavors. Not that it matters, it's just a name.If you look on Southern Tier's website, all the beers have weird °L specs. I wonder if it's some kind of weighted average type of calculation? I wonder if they pulled the lovibond numbers off the labels when someone told them it didn't make sense.

Edited by JKoravos, 22 December 2009 - 08:34 PM.

[dondewey]

I'd think about doing a half batch. The 44oz we bought is about the right amount for 2 people for ~4 years. It really does taste true to its name. This beer is defined by the vanilla, so I think it would be worth it to splurge on some real high-quality vanila beans from online.

[McNuggets]

I wonder is a bit of even darker crystal in the mix could get some roasted flavour, like 135-165. I also question their lovibond numbers. 195L just doesn't make sense to me, other than to say it's pretty dark.

The 44oz we bought is about the right amount for 2 people for ~4 years.

lol. This was going to be a give away (for the most part) to people who would go for it. Plus a change in pace and bit of a challenge. I managed to dig up this bit of info from the person who contacted the brewer:

I actually just called and spoke to someone in the QC department...He did mention to mash in the low 150's which is different than a recipe I saw that said 160. He also said they use a very concentrated vanilla extract from "Bells"...he indicated for a 5 gal batch you'd only need a couple ml so I think I'll just use a high quality vanilla extract. Oh yeah, he said the vanilla goes in just prior to carbonation...

[Thirsty]

Well a buddy of mine invited me over for some Peking duck last night, made it with fresh east coat duck and goose that was shot the day before by one of his salesman on vacation. So in the short, we needed a good dessert. I broke this out instead of waiting til tomorrow like I wanted to.Holy shit this is good stuff. I called a couple other packies around here to see if they had any more- I am striking out. But this is one fine beer! After looking it over again, JK is right on the money, I assumed it was an RIS because the top of the bottle says Imperial, and it is a stout. But this is more like an Imperial foreign extra stout than even a sweet/milk stout. I thought that the initial aroma and flavor are that of Irish coffee. A strong and intense aroma, but no harshness at all. Vanilla, coffee, chocolate, cream, butterscotch (but not slick and definitely not diacetyl, although I wonder if using the British strain if slight diacetyl enhances this) and a bit of hazelnut. Some dark fruits come out as it warms and raisin, plum fig are hinted in the background. But there is no strong roast at all, and no dryness. The bitterness level is up there however and feels like it is about 60-65, because it stops the sweetness from being cloying, if it was lower, the cloyingness would come out. After a few sips I likened the flavor to match that of bailey's and coffee, so we broke out a bottle of bailey's and did a side by side, and the beer is remarkably close in flavor to baileys, with just a bit of burnt sugar brought to the table. I cant see how the flavor can be so intense and so rounded and smooth from traditional ingredients only- I think there are some extracts added. There has to be. It also has a medium, not full mouthfeel, I think so it is not overwhelming, almost to trick you into a balance with the sweetness. If I had to put a recipe together this is what I would do- and it is a wildassed guess. 6 gallon batch7.5 gallon boil (90minutes)OG 25P 1.100FG 1.030 (70% atten)IBUs 65SRM 43mash 152 for 9015# marris otter pale1# c-601# c-80.5# c-120.25$ special B.5# chocolate 450L1# D2 belgian candi1# dark wheat1# lactose milk sugar1# corn sugar dissolved into 1 gallon of first running and boiled for 15 minutes, then continue runoff1.5 oz magnum 60 (i think would be a better fit than columbus)1 oz EKG 451 oz Horizon 15Wyeast 1099 whitbread, cold crash at 1.030Secondary with 2 whole vanilla beans split and scraped, 2 oz chocolate extract, 1 oz vanilla extract, 1 oz hazelnut extractBoy there is a lot of speculation there!