10 replies to this topic

[ChefLamont]

I have been thinking about filtering for a while. I know the arguments for and against, so please dont try to turn this into a you shouldnt filter and here's why thread. I dont know that I will do a lot of it, but like many things, it is a skill/technique I would at least like to try.The place where I am getting vapor locked is what size filter to buy. I cannot decide between 1 and 5 micron - both nominal. It may be helpful to know that I am going the canister/water type filter route. I cant find them locally, and the ones I find online are really pricey per filter to just "try". I can get a case of them (50) off ebay for a good price, but not knowing what size to get makes me not want to buy a case (or even a half case if I go with 1/2 1 micron and 1/2 5 micron) and get the wrong thing.The beers I will be filtering arent muddy per sey, but they arent that clear either. Maybe call them very very cloudy but still sort of able to see through some of them anyway. I dont know for sure, but I think a lot of it is yeast, but there could be a fair amount of protein haze.What sayest yall?

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

I have been thinking about filtering for a while. I know the arguments for and against, so please dont try to turn this into a you shouldnt filter and here's why thread. I dont know that I will do a lot of it, but like many things, it is a skill/technique I would at least like to try.The place where I am getting vapor locked is what size filter to buy. I cannot decide between 1 and 5 micron - both nominal. It may be helpful to know that I am going the canister/water type filter route. I cant find them locally, and the ones I find online are really pricey per filter to just "try". I can get a case of them (50) off ebay for a good price, but not knowing what size to get makes me not want to buy a case (or even a half case if I go with 1/2 1 micron and 1/2 5 micron) and get the wrong thing.The beers I will be filtering arent muddy per sey, but they arent that clear either. Maybe call them very very cloudy but still sort of able to see through some of them anyway. I dont know for sure, but I think a lot of it is yeast, but there could be a fair amount of protein haze.What sayest yall?

If it's haze will filters help with this? Why do you think so much of it is yeast? Cold crashing should pretty much always take care of yeast. I'm not trying to talk you out of filtering, I'm just trying to help you figure out what is actually causing the cloudiness.

[Big Nake]

It may not be possible without some trial & error. I read somewhere that the 1 micron filters will not work unless the beer has settled some. For very cloudy beer, I have always seen it suggested that the beer run through a larger filter (say, a 5) and then run through a smaller filter. If you think your beer is "slightly clear" or "close to clear", you could try going for a 1 for that ultra-polished look. I did buy a plate filter from Williams for $49 or something and I got 5s and 1s with it. It sat for awhile and I never used it. Then a brewing buddy of mine found out he had a yeast allergy and I gifted the filter to him to see if he could get as much yeast out of the beer to keep the allergy in check. FWIW, check out the pics of clear beers on my site (link below, go to GALLERIES and BEERS)... many of them are very clear just from Whirfloc, a quick chill, settling before racking to primary, gel in the secondary and cold conditioning. Good luck.

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

It may not be possible without some trial & error. I read somewhere that the 1 micron filters will not work unless the beer has settled some. For very cloudy beer, I have always seen it suggested that the beer run through a larger filter (say, a 5) and then run through a smaller filter. If you think your beer is "slightly clear" or "close to clear", you could try going for a 1 for that ultra-polished look. I did buy a plate filter from Williams for $49 or something and I got 5s and 1s with it. It sat for awhile and I never used it. Then a brewing buddy of mine found out he had a yeast allergy and I gifted the filter to him to see if he could get as much yeast out of the beer to keep the allergy in check. FWIW, check out the pics of clear beers on my site (link below, go to GALLERIES and BEERS)... many of them are very clear just from Whirfloc, a quick chill, settling before racking to primary, gel in the secondary and cold conditioning. Good luck.

I'm going to take your advice to heart on my next beer Ken. The only thing I won't be doing this time around is the gel so we'll see how I can do.

[Stout_fan]

At the Orlando NHBC one guy gave a talk, and pretty much said the same thing about double filtering. Do 5s then 1s. One problem he did have was oxidation. Those filters will pump a boatload of O2 into your beer. IIRC his solution was to run a gallon or two of water through first and pitch the first half gallon or so of beer. It's been a few years, so double check me on this.

[Big Nake]

I'm going to take your advice to heart on my next beer Ken. The only thing I won't be doing this time around is the gel so we'll see how I can do.

Well, I know that ChefLamont doesn't want to hear this, but leaving some amount of yeast in your homebrew can be good for you and if you believe the chapter in TCJOHB about residual yeast replenishing your vitamin Bs and how that can prevent you from feeling the effects of hangovers, you don't really want to filter, IMO. But that doesn't mean I don't like clear beers... I do. But I have overdone it on filtered commercial beer and felt awful the next day. I have also overdone it on homebrew and ordinarily feel fine or much less hungover the next day. I think it's possible to get your homebrew very clear without filtering, but again... ChefLamont clearly stated he doesn't want to hear this kind of talk and I respect that. The one article I read mentioned that trying to get cloudy beer through a 1 micron filter would clog it so either let it settle first or filter it twice... once with a 5 and again with a 1.

[ChicagoWaterGuy]

At the Orlando NHBC one guy gave a talk, and pretty much said the same thing about double filtering. Do 5s then 1s. One problem he did have was oxidation. Those filters will pump a boatload of O2 into your beer. IIRC his solution was to run a gallon or two of water through first and pitch the first half gallon or so of beer. It's been a few years, so double check me on this.

I think this would be a problem with plate filters, but not with the canister type. With a canister you should be able to sanitize then purge with co2.

[gumballhead]

Chef,I would say first. if you have dry hopped and have a Cloudy or Hazey beer. thenthe Irish Moss, wirfloc tabs. and gelitan along with cold crashing the Primary shouldget the beer cleared up to start.if taking on to the secondary and into the keg I would think at this point a 1 would be good. but I see no reason not to use the 5 either. leaving a bit if the yeast and goodnessin the beer does add to the beer.are these filters a one shot deal.? how do you clean them up until next time? flush and rinse?cost of filters.? have you taken these factors in.Cheers. Good Luck.

[Big Nake]

On the oxidation... the plate filter process has you going from one sealed keg, out the OUT post, through the plate filter and into another sealed keg so my guess is that the beer is only getting touched by Co2, not O2. Of course, I never used mine so I may be missing something. Chef... if you try it, please post your results. There are very few homebrewers interested enough in this to even consider it, but every once in awhile it comes up and some people MUST be doing it and information is at a premium. Cheers.

[chuck_d]

So I'm one of those advocates of filtration on homebrew, if only for the experience. I'm writing this mostly from memory, so I hope I get it all right. I tried to it once myself before leaving for school, but I had a leak on my filter housing and said, forget it I'll try it again when I get back.Filtration is usually unnecessary, but it can be fun and quite useful for some beers. Like if you want to produce a Kölsch quickly with the notoriously slow flocc'ing yeast strains. Yeast cells are ellipsoids 5-10 microns big. So 5 microns should collect a bunch of yeast. Instead of just 5 or 1 microns, I've also seen those canisters in 3 microns. You could try 5 then 1, or just 3. One issue you might run into is microbiological stability. Sterile filtration is actually 0.45 micron, because the smallest beer spoilage microorganisms are 0.5 microns in size. So it might be that you want to drink the beer a little bit faster, or also, just let some sit for a long time to see if any issues arise after filtration.In dealing with oxygen pickup, you should get some non-foaming sanitizer, like SaniClean, and run that through the filter to push all the air out. Let it sit for a few minutes and then just push the beer after it. At least that is my plan. Then once you start pushing beer though, make sure it runs beer down the drain for a while before collecting it. This is more important when using caustic or some other cleaner that requires rinsing, but still you need to expect beer loses when filtering. You can also try to push out the sanitizer with CO2, but I'm not sure that is necessary.If you have clarity issues that aren't yeast related, such as colloidal stability, you're going to need to handle that with other methods, or things combined with filtration. Colloidal particles causing beer haze, like protein-polyphenol complexes, are typically about 0.001 - 0.1 microns in size. If that is the cause of your haze problems you'll want to adjust your other processes and/or use processing aids, like silica gel, PVPP, carageenen etc. Ensure you have a vigorous boil which is producing a good hot break.So, I would say pick up a couple of each of the filter sizes and practice a few times to see what you want before buying a case. Hopefully in a couple months I'll finally be able to report back on my 7-day Kölsch homebrew recipe that I'm trying to develop. It's been too long since I've brewed at home.HTH

[ChefLamont]

Thanks all. (Sorry I got busy back when I posted this and kind of forgot about it till now. )The source for the filters is on ebay. They are a little over a buck a piece (bought 50 at a time), so I plan on them being one-trip wonders. I am leaning on just going 50/50 and getting both 5 and 1.I have used gelatin in the past and I use 5-star supermoss on each batch. The gelatin would work ok, but not great. That makes me wonder if is is more of a protein haze rather than a yeast thing.Well, thanks again, I will let yall know how things go.