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#21 Thirsty

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Posted 11 December 2009 - 08:27 AM

James Spencer (Basic Brewing dude) talked to some gummint folks (at the TTB? I disremember.) on this and was told it's perfectly okay. (Usual homebrew caveats apply - e.g. "don't sell the stuff".)

Making an eisbock is perfectly legal, removing the water from a beer to concentrate flavors and intensify alcohol is legal, boiling off the alcohol and collecting it is illegal. 2 different processes and 2 different end results.Oh yeah, and dont sell the stuff :devil:

Edited by Thirsty, 11 December 2009 - 08:29 AM.


#22 ThroatwobblerMangrove

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Posted 11 December 2009 - 08:29 AM

Making an eisbock is perfectly legal, removing the water from a beer to concentrate flavors and intensify alcohol is legal, boiling off the alcohol and collecting it is illegal. 2 different processes and 2 different end results.

does the freezing process remove some of the alcohol as well?

#23 Thirsty

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Posted 11 December 2009 - 08:32 AM

does the freezing process remove some of the alcohol as well?

Not if done right. Water specifically freezes at 32, so if the vessel is held at 32 or a degree below, there will be ice to remove. Alcohol freezes quite a bit lower, not exactly sure at what, but at least a few degrees, making it pretty easy to control with the right equipt.

#24 cavman

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Posted 11 December 2009 - 09:03 AM

what kind of stuff are they doing to accomplish this?

They are brewing and successfully over the top aggressive beer, that is marketed mostly to the UK. Now admittedly it's going to take more than one brewery and time, but UK beer drinkers are starting to steer away from just drinking bitters, browns, milds, etc and drinking the bigger bolder stuff. It may be more the new generation than the old, but it is slowly happening. Cambridge Brewing won gold for best American Cask at GBBF with an Imperial Stout, who would have thought an impy stout would take first in the major British feastival.

#25 ThroatwobblerMangrove

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Posted 11 December 2009 - 09:08 AM

They are brewing and successfully over the top aggressive beer, that is marketed mostly to the UK. Now admittedly it's going to take more than one brewery and time, but UK beer drinkers are starting to steer away from just drinking bitters, browns, milds, etc and drinking the bigger bolder stuff. It may be more the new generation than the old, but it is slowly happening. Cambridge Brewing won gold for best American Cask at GBBF with an Imperial Stout, who would have thought an impy stout would take first in the major British feastival.

Sometimes I forget we are kind of the brewing wild west over here. Good news for the UK :devil:

#26 shaggaroo

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Posted 11 December 2009 - 08:38 PM

Just realize that with the conversion you will pay out the ass for these. I've been thinking about ordering two bottles and having them shipped to a mate over there. $65 to ship two bottles to the US is crazy.

But if I'm there and bringing it back, I won't be paying $65 to ship it... so maybe it will be a wash.

#27 *_Guest_Matt C_*

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Posted 11 December 2009 - 10:06 PM

I have a feeling this 32% crap tastes like complete sh-t! I'm sure it tastes nothing like "beer" probably more like a spirit of sorts. Not saying i wouldn't try it but I hate liquor for the most part and this seems gimmicky to me. :smilielol:

#28 earthtone

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Posted 12 December 2009 - 09:12 AM

Not if done right. Water specifically freezes at 32, so if the vessel is held at 32 or a degree below, there will be ice to remove. Alcohol freezes quite a bit lower, not exactly sure at what, but at least a few degrees, making it pretty easy to control with the right equipt.

sorry thirsty not true.

Such enrichment by freezing of a solution in water is sometimes oversimplified by saying that, for instance, because of the difference in freezing points of water (0 °C/32 °F), and ethyl alcohol (-114 °C/-173 °F), “the water freezes into ice...while the ethyl alcohol remains liquid.” This is false, and although some of the implications of that description are true and useful, other conclusions drawn from it would be false.The detailed situation is the subject of thermodynamics, a subdivision of physics of importance to chemistry. Without resorting to mathematics, the following can be said:Freezing in this scenario begins at a temperature significantly below 0 °C.The first material to freeze is not the water, but a dilute solution of alcohol in water.The liquid left behind is richer in alcohol, and as a consequence, further freezing would take place at progressively lower temperatures. The frozen material, while always poorer in alcohol than the (increasingly rich) liquid, becomes progressively richer in alcohol.Further stages of removing frozen material and waiting for more freezing will come to nought once the liquid uniformly cools to the temperature of whatever is cooling it.If progressively colder temperatures are available,the frozen material will contain progressively larger concentrations of alcohol, andthe fraction of the original alcohol removed with the solid material will increase.In practice, unless the removal of solid material carries away liquid, the degree of concentration will depend on the final temperature rather than on the number of cycles of removing solid material and chilling.Thermodynamics gives fair assurance, even without more information about alcohol and water than that they freely dissolve in each other, thateven if temperatures somewhat below the freezing point of ethyl alcohol are achieved, there will still be alcohol and water mixed as a liquid, andat some still lower temperature, the remaining alcohol-and-water solution will freeze without an alcohol-poor solid being separable.The best-known freeze-distilled beverages are applejack and ice beer. Ice wine is the result of a similar process, but in this case, the freezing happens before the fermentation, and thus it is sugar, not alcohol, that gets concentrated. For an in depth discussion of the physics and chemistry, see eutectic point.



#29 Thirsty

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Posted 12 December 2009 - 09:47 AM

Nice catch!! Very interesting point. I think it is a little overanalytical, meaning the percentages are probably small for concentration. I think the idea is to remove a portion of, and not all of water from the beer. As the article says, to think it is oversimplified is false, but the majority of the process- removing mostly water, and leaving mostly ethyl alcohol behind, would remain true. So I think at the homebrew level, again it would be a very easy process to do, (temp controlled freezer) to get a good result. My buddy did this by accident to a dopplebock left in his cellar hatchway, pulled off some ice that formed from negligence. Turned out to be one damn tasty beer after a year!

#30 bdutton

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Posted 12 December 2009 - 10:34 AM

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#31 HarvInSTL

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Posted 12 December 2009 - 10:47 AM

But if I'm there and bringing it back, I won't be paying $65 to ship it... so maybe it will be a wash.

You've got 5 months before your trip. They only made 500 bottles, and of those 500 only 250 will be made available for £35. The other 250 bottles will only be available for £250 which includes 1 share in the company.I wish you the best of luck in trying to procure such a limited release in 5 months. And I'll make you a deal. If you can find 3 of them, I'll pay for all of them and give you one for bringing them back. Free beer to transport some back home, sound like a plan?

#32 shaggaroo

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Posted 12 December 2009 - 12:36 PM

You've got 5 months before your trip. They only made 500 bottles, and of those 500 only 250 will be made available for £35. The other 250 bottles will only be available for £250 which includes 1 share in the company.I wish you the best of luck in trying to procure such a limited release in 5 months. And I'll make you a deal. If you can find 3 of them, I'll pay for all of them and give you one for bringing them back. Free beer to transport some back home, sound like a plan?

Sounds like a plan Harv. Yeah I didn't catch the limited release bit :smilielol:

#33 Winkydowbrewing

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Posted 12 December 2009 - 05:31 PM

Utopias still holds the record...and my bottle of '09 is waiting to be popped very soon.

#34 Winkydowbrewing

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Posted 12 December 2009 - 05:38 PM

In guinness book I meant to add...edit didnt work.

#35 Stout_fan

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Posted 14 December 2009 - 07:56 PM

yeah - I thought that was a little weird but why all the hate?

Yea, OK I was a bit harsh. SorryBut it does strike me a bit like Neil Morresy in "Risky Business."Now that pair was a bunch of posers.

#36 3rd party JKor

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Posted 14 December 2009 - 09:07 PM

Watch the video. At 1:38 the jackass sticks his hands in the beer.Posers!

And they're doing open transfers, which seems a little weird to me. Maybe they want the oxidation?

#37 Stout_fan

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Posted 15 December 2009 - 07:16 AM

And they're doing open transfers, which seems a little weird to me. Maybe they want the oxidation infection?

FTFY :blink:

#38 MtnBrewer

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Posted 15 December 2009 - 10:02 AM

Contamination in a 32% beer?

#39 ThroatwobblerMangrove

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Posted 15 December 2009 - 10:40 AM

Contamination in a 32% beer?

it would have to be a rugged bug

#40 Stout_fan

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Posted 16 December 2009 - 09:20 AM

Contamination in a 32% beer?

I guess if it can kill livers, it can kill anything.


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