129 replies to this topic

[davelew]

I expect the brakes on my Maverick hybrid to be lifetime - aren't EV's even more regeny?

Plug-in hybrids and battery cars are more likely to leave the garage with a full battery and no regen capacity until the battery is discharged a bit. I think my car restricts regen for the first 20 mikes after a full charge.

[positiveContact]

I'm not sure what mine does as I know "full" battery is actually 80%. Not sure if that's too slow for some regen??? It's at least partially to keep the battery healthy.

[positiveContact]

I'm not sure what mine does as I know "full" battery is actually 80%. Not sure if that's too slow for some regen??? It's at least partially to keep the battery healthy.

Slow = allow

[DieselGopher]

I average 500-525 per tank on the legacy; I had left the office with a touch over 1/4 of a tank.

500 mile range on an ev is when it'll match my personal use case.

You and me = eye to eye. In all likelihood, my use case could be 600+ to account for cold weather. It was 8 F this morning, and will be below 0 tomorrow. I know the cold has been VERY detrimental to range on current EVs.

[davelew]

You and me = eye to eye. In all likelihood, my use case could be 600+ to account for cold weather. It was 8 F this morning, and will be below 0 tomorrow. I know the cold has been VERY detrimental to range on current EVs.

 

Starting a cold EV can take 10-20 miles of range, but it is a smaller hit once the car is preheated.  So cold weather range depends a lot on the length of the trips; I can imagine an EV where on a cold day one charge would last for 10 trips of 5 miles each, or 1 trip of 230 miles.

[positiveContact]

I would suggest anyone considering an EV for cost savings ($/mile) determine how expensive gas has to be along with their current electric rates to make sure the math works out.  I get the sense that most people never do this because I know I fairly blindly assumed before I did it that EV would be cheaper but around here it's about the same or worse depending on the vehicle and your rates and the current cost of gas.

[Enid Puceflange]

I'm not sure what mine does as I know "full" battery is actually 80%. Not sure if that's too slow for some regen??? It's at least partially to keep the battery healthy.

The usual reason for not charging to 100% is in case you live at the top of a hill, and the first thing you do going out the door is regen braking. There has to be somewhere to store the charge...

[Enid Puceflange]

I would suggest anyone considering an EV for cost savings ($/mile) determine how expensive gas has to be along with their current electric rates to make sure the math works out.  I get the sense that most people never do this because I know I fairly blindly assumed before I did it that EV would be cheaper but around here it's about the same or worse depending on the vehicle and your rates and the current cost of gas.

The economic case also needs to take into account servicing costs, and depreciation, as well as the difference in insurance rates, not to mention the not insignificant tax incentives and local rebates. 

 

With resale values holding up better for EVs than for gas models right now I'd be surprised if the energy costs made much of a dent in the decision. 

[positiveContact]

The economic case also needs to take into account servicing costs, and depreciation, as well as the difference in insurance rates, not to mention the not insignificant tax incentives and local rebates. 

 

With resale values holding up better for EVs than for gas models right now I'd be surprised if the energy costs made much of a dent in the decision. 

 

might work out.  depends on what you are driving and under what conditions.  my ICE vehicles have been extremely low cost of ownership overall needing only wear and tear items (oil changes (~2 per year), tires, brakes).  I drive my cars until they are pretty old (10+ years) so resale value isn't a huge factor for me.

[DuncanDad]

The KIA EV 6 is just under 70 grand.

A bit rich for my blood.

[davelew]

The KIA EV 6 is just under 70 grand.

A bit rich for my blood.

 

What price would be low enough for you to buy a Kia?

[DuncanDad]

What price would be low enough for you to buy a Kia?

In this case, my standards are pretty low.

Sub $1000.00

"Never spend more than $1000.00 anything built or engineered by Koreans."

[dondewey]

Duncan: the world's most specific racist. Loves everyone except for Korean engineers.

[DuncanDad]

Duncan: the world's most specific racist. Loves everyone except for Korean engineers.

Ha!

I don't have anything against Korean engineers. I just don't have any money for their mediocre skills, either.

 

KIA is on record as wanting to be on the same engineering and design standard as BMW or Mercedes. That said, they do pack in a lot of technology into their cars and trucks but, as evidenced here, they have a long way to go, (not saying BMW is the paragon of engineering modern cars).

Sure, my standards are mine and based more on quality/how long a car is on the road/recalls/reported issues, than bells, whistles and, how it looks.

[Enid Puceflange]

Duncan: the world's most specific racist. Loves everyone except for Korean engineers.

Having worked for a Korean company in Europe and Korea I think I share his views on Korean production engineering. It's not the actual design itself that's the issue - it's the production part, and the focus on continual cost reduction over product quality. The first run stuff is usually pretty good, but get that line running and the purchasing department gets its teeth into it and very soon you get "local vendor" issues and the quality goes straight to hell.

 

Bottom line is that culturally Japanese companies focus on continual improvement to product quality, and Korean ones focus on continual reduction in product cost. This IS a cultural thing, at least in my experience (n=2 Korean companies, n=4 Japanese companies)

[positiveContact]

Having worked for a Korean company in Europe and Korea I think I share his views on Korean production engineering. It's not the actual design itself that's the issue - it's the production part, and the focus on continual cost reduction over product quality. The first run stuff is usually pretty good, but get that line running and the purchasing department gets its teeth into it and very soon you get "local vendor" issues and the quality goes straight to hell.

 

Bottom line is that culturally Japanese companies focus on continual improvement to product quality, and Korean ones focus on continual reduction in product cost. This IS a cultural thing, at least in my experience (n=2 Korean companies, n=4 Japanese companies)

 

one reason why I wasn't too broken up when I found out my prime was made in Japan.

[3rd party JKor]

You and me = eye to eye. In all likelihood, my use case could be 600+ to account for cold weather. It was 8 F this morning, and will be below 0 tomorrow. I know the cold has been VERY detrimental to range on current EVs.

 

I don't think this will ever happen.  It's more likely IMO that range has pretty much already topped out and will plateau or start going down in the next few years.  The gains will go into higher charging speeds and more charging infrastructure.

 

If you have a relatively efficient vehicle, say 3.5mi/kwh, and 500kW charging you can add 30 miles/minute of range.  The days of driving 500+ miles without stopping are coming to an end.  I'm sure there will be some very expensive workarounds that will allow it but it won't be worth it when you can add hundreds of miles of range in 10 minutes.

[positiveContact]

I don't think this will ever happen.  It's more likely IMO that range has pretty much already topped out and will plateau or start going down in the next few years.  The gains will go into higher charging speeds and more charging infrastructure.

 

If you have a relatively efficient vehicle, say 3.5mi/kwh, and 500kW charging you can add 30 miles/minute of range.  The days of driving 500+ miles without stopping are coming to an end.  I'm sure there will be some very expensive workarounds that will allow it but it won't be worth it when you can add hundreds of miles of range in 10 minutes.

 

yeah, I'd be perfectly fine with 300 mile range with very fast charge times and obviously availability of chargers.

[3rd party JKor]

yeah, I'd be perfectly fine with 300 mile range with very fast charge times and obviously availability of chargers.

 

I'm with you but I think the ranges will move more towards 200 miles, or even less, as the infrastructure matures.  300 is fine even with today's limited infrastructure.

[DownEastBrewer]

The days of driving 500+ miles without stopping are coming to an end.

I think there are a LOT more people/use cases that drive 500 miles in a day than you realize. Get your mind outside the 495 loop.