105 replies to this topic

[Julius H Gardetto]

Well?

Want to fill a big tub and have five people take showers each day. Sounds like gas might be more efficient?

[Bklmt2000]

Well?

Want to fill a big tub and have five people take showers each day. Sounds like gas might be more efficient?

Consider a tankless.  Not cheap, but worth every penny.

 

Mine is NG, and rated at 99% efficient.

[SnowMan]

2 of them.

Neither one is going to have the recovery necessary unless you go tankless.

Depending on the layout of your plumbing you could either plumb them in series or parallel feeding different areas.

In my house, one feeds the kitchen, laundry and girls bath. The other feeds the master and basement bath

[TonyBrown]

Gas. Are you going for whole house tankless or traditional?? If you wanted to do a point of use tankless then electric so you don’t have to vent anything but you’ll have small heaters in each bathroom laundry and kitchen

[DieselGopher]

2 of them.

Neither one is going to have the recovery necessary unless you go tankless.

Depending on the layout of your plumbing you could either plumb them in series or parallel feeding different areas.

In my house, one feeds the kitchen, laundry and girls bath. The other feeds the master and basement bath

This.

My retirement home will have this set up with 2 hybrid heat pump water heaters.

[Stains_not_here_man]

Gas tankless ftw

I'll never go back

[Enid Puceflange]

Depends.

 

Right now you can get pretty much the entire cost of a heat pump water heater back thanks to the "Inflation Reduction Act" that passed last year. Heat pump units are MUCH cheaper to run than any other water heater - like a quarter the cost of standard electric.

 

If you are just concerned with endless hot water, then you probably want a gas tankless, but there are some serious issues with them like cost to buy, cost to run and longevity. Don't even THINK about electric tankless because they are universally useless.

 

The warranty on whatever product you DO buy indicates how long the anode is gonna last btw

[Stains_not_here_man]

Depends.

Right now you can get pretty much the entire cost of a heat pump water heater back thanks to the "Inflation Reduction Act" that passed last year. Heat pump units are MUCH cheaper to run than any other water heater - like a quarter the cost of standard electric.

If you are just concerned with endless hot water, then you probably want a gas tankless, but there are some serious issues with them like cost to buy, cost to run and longevity. Don't even THINK about electric tankless because they are universally useless.

The warranty on whatever product you DO buy indicates how long the anode is gonna last btw

Don't people usually replace their tanks after 10 years? My tankless is at least 10 years old and shows no signs of trouble.

[positiveContact]

Depends.

 

Right now you can get pretty much the entire cost of a heat pump water heater back thanks to the "Inflation Reduction Act" that passed last year. Heat pump units are MUCH cheaper to run than any other water heater - like a quarter the cost of standard electric.

 

If you are just concerned with endless hot water, then you probably want a gas tankless, but there are some serious issues with them like cost to buy, cost to run and longevity. Don't even THINK about electric tankless because they are universally useless.

 

The warranty on whatever product you DO buy indicates how long the anode is gonna last btw

 

really?  why should I just not buy one of these heat pump type heaters right now then?  my electricity isn't exactly cheap at $0.20-0.24/kwh.  My gas hot water heater (typical big tank variety) is probably due to kick it any time now.

Edited by postSingularityHumanoid, 25 January 2023 - 08:38 AM.

[TonyBrown]

Don't people usually replace their tanks after 10 years? My tankless is at least 10 years old and shows no signs of trouble.

mine was installed in 2006, I know we are about due

[Enid Puceflange]

Don't people usually replace their tanks after 10 years? My tankless is at least 10 years old and shows no signs of trouble.

If you don't change the anode then yeah, 10 years is about right. 

 

Tankless at 10 years has had a good run

really?  why should I just not buy one of these heat pump type heaters right now then?  my electricity isn't exactly cheap at $0.20-0.24/kwh.  My gas hot water heater (typical big tank variety) is probably due to kick it any time now.

So yeah, if you're in the market for a water heater you'd be crazy not to seriously consider a heat pump unit because Uncle Joe will essentially buy it for you

[HVB]

If you don't change the anode then yeah, 10 years is about right. 

 

Tankless at 10 years has had a good run

So yeah, if you're in the market for a water heater you'd be crazy not to seriously consider a heat pump unit because Uncle Joe will essentially buy it for you

I have not looked into it yet but is that bolded part only if you have someone do it for you.  I assume a DIY will not be covered.

[positiveContact]

If you don't change the anode then yeah, 10 years is about right. 

 

Tankless at 10 years has had a good run

So yeah, if you're in the market for a water heater you'd be crazy not to seriously consider a heat pump unit because Uncle Joe will essentially buy it for you

 

is there a relatively straightforward way to predict operating cost differences?  basically if the heat pump is at least on par with my gas hot water heater it seems like it might be worth it.

I have not looked into it yet but is that bolded part only if you have someone do it for you.  I assume a DIY will not be covered.

 

yeah, hopefully installers aren't artificially jacking the install price up.

[positiveContact]

I feel like I always come back to these questions....

 

my basement is large and unfinished.  it is insulated both from the outside and the rest of the house.  concrete floor and walls with one wall that's only half height with a window and door on it.  it's pretty chilly down there in the winter.  it seems like pulling more heat out of there could be bad.  thoughts?

[Enid Puceflange]

I feel like I always come back to these questions....

 

my basement is large and unfinished.  it is insulated both from the outside and the rest of the house.  concrete floor and walls with one wall that's only half height with a window and door on it.  it's pretty chilly down there in the winter.  it seems like pulling more heat out of there could be bad.  thoughts?

Your basement is probably a perfect spot - it's likely around 50F and pretty constant temperature year round, and relatively humid, so lots of latent heat available. Assuming it is at least partially below ground level it will be roughly the subsoil temperature, the same as the water coming into the house. You'll also get a dehumidifier as part of the deal

 

The running cost if you have it in heat pump only mode is about 1/4 the cost of an equivalent electric unit - the compressor and fan are around 700w usually, compared to the heating elements that are about 5kw.

Edited by Enid Puceflange, 25 January 2023 - 10:19 AM.

[Kremer]

Your basement is probably a perfect spot - it's likely around 50F and pretty constant temperature year round, and relatively humid, so lots of latent heat available.

I installed my first gen GE Geospring in the unfinished basement at our old house.  It was perfect IMHO.  It dehumidified wonderfully, it never really felt like it cooled the basement either.  It dried it out and was able to scoop its tank loss back up and put it back into the tank.

[Stains_not_here_man]

If you don't change the anode then yeah, 10 years is about right.

Tankless at 10 years has had a good run

I'm betting most folks aren't as diligent about the maintenance as I am.

[positiveContact]

Your basement is probably a perfect spot - it's likely around 50F and pretty constant temperature year round, and relatively humid, so lots of latent heat available. Assuming it is at least partially below ground level it will be roughly the subsoil temperature, the same as the water coming into the house. You'll also get a dehumidifier as part of the deal

 

The running cost if you have it in heat pump only mode is about 1/4 the cost of an equivalent electric unit - the compressor and fan are around 700w usually, compared to the heating elements that are about 5kw.

 

Wow.  I left a digital thermometer down there before I went out to lunch and I just checked it and by jove you nailed!  50F!!!

 

so how can I do the math here?  I assume this is similar to a traditional hot water heater in that it's keeping a bunch of water at a high temperature for me to use.  so does it just come down to how much it costs to apply heat?  I'm not exactly sure how to do this comparison.  I know about how much my electricity costs per kwh.  I can probably find out how much I pay per therm or whatever the unit is on natural gas.  what's the easiest way to figure this out?

Edited by postSingularityHumanoid, 25 January 2023 - 12:40 PM.

[BrewerGeorge]

...

So yeah, if you're in the market for a water heater you'd be crazy not to seriously consider a heat pump unit because Uncle Joe will essentially buy it for you

You got a link for that?  I can see 30% of the project cost up to $2000 max, or I can see $350 from Duke, but I can't find anything close to the full replacement cost of a hybrid tank heater.

[Enid Puceflange]

You got a link for that?  I can see 30% of the project cost up to $2000 max, or I can see $350 from Duke, but I can't find anything close to the full replacement cost of a hybrid tank heater.

Try this one:

https://www.rewiring.../ira-calculator

 

It depends on how much money you make - if you're top-hat-and-monocle material you get less than teh poors