19 replies to this topic

[mach5]

I'm scratching my head over this one. Me and my buddy brewed a batch of winter warmer. We split the batch and he took half and I took the other half, we fermented separately. We both primaried a couple weeks then racked to secondary and let it sit for a couple months. Then his half went to bottles and my half stayed kegged, and we both added some spices to the brew...cinnamon, cardamom, clove and nutmeg.Well, my buddy gave me a bottle of his brew to try...he was concerned that he overdid the spices at the end. I tried the beer and it was good, but there was an overcarb issue. When I opened the bottle, it didn't gush, but there was plenty of carb when I poured, and most of the pour was foam. But the beer was really good.Now, on to my issue. My beer had been sitting in a keg secondary for months. I went to add the spices and the thing was under some CRAZY pressure. I went to open the relief valve and got a beer shower...I was like, WTF, this has been sitting for months I expect it to be flat? The lid was under so much pressure I couldn't get it off. The only way to get to the beer was to unscrew the relief valve and get the lid off as quick as possible...foam oozed out the keg opening. So I threw the spices in the beer, got a quick sample, then closed it up.I had two initial thoughts...one was that the primary was not over when I racked and I got fermentation going on in the secondary (I later discredited this theory). The next thought was contamination, but when I tried the beer, it tasted great...awesome in fact.Fast forward to last evening...it had been spiced for a week, so I went to rack off the spices to another keg. Same problem. The thing was jacked with pressure and I could hardly get the lid off. So, I opened the thing, racked to a new keg as fast as I could...lost about 2-3 pints on the floor from the foaming out the top. Strangely, no yeast cake in the bottom of the keg to suggest any kind of fermentation going on in the secondary. Beer still tastes great, no sourness or off flavors at all.Back to my buddies beer...he now has bulging bottle caps. I told him to chill it ASAP, move it to a cooler of ice water outside in case there are any bombs. I think he is going to try to uncap, let the bottles sit a little then recap to relieve the pressure. My thoughts are that he just used to much priming sugar...I think he used molasses to prime, but I don't know how much.So, any ideas as to what's going on here, at least with my kegged beer. Help, thoughts, theories?

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

I'm scratching my head over this one. Me and my buddy brewed a batch of winter warmer. We split the batch and he took half and I took the other half, we fermented separately. We both primaried a couple weeks then racked to secondary and let it sit for a couple months. Then his half went to bottles and my half stayed kegged, and we both added some spices to the brew...cinnamon, cardamom, clove and nutmeg.Well, my buddy gave me a bottle of his brew to try...he was concerned that he overdid the spices at the end. I tried the beer and it was good, but there was an overcarb issue. When I opened the bottle, it didn't gush, but there was plenty of carb when I poured, and most of the pour was foam. But the beer was really good.Now, on to my issue. My beer had been sitting in a keg secondary for months. I went to add the spices and the thing was under some CRAZY pressure. I went to open the relief valve and got a beer shower...I was like, WTF, this has been sitting for months I expect it to be flat? The lid was under so much pressure I couldn't get it off. The only way to get to the beer was to unscrew the relief valve and get the lid off as quick as possible...foam oozed out the keg opening. So I threw the spices in the beer, got a quick sample, then closed it up.I had two initial thoughts...one was that the primary was not over when I racked and I got fermentation going on in the secondary (I later discredited this theory). The next thought was contamination, but when I tried the beer, it tasted great...awesome in fact.Fast forward to last evening...it had been spiced for a week, so I went to rack off the spices to another keg. Same problem. The thing was jacked with pressure and I could hardly get the lid off. So, I opened the thing, racked to a new keg as fast as I could...lost about 2-3 pints on the floor from the foaming out the top. Strangely, no yeast cake in the bottom of the keg to suggest any kind of fermentation going on in the secondary. Beer still tastes great, no sourness or off flavors at all.Back to my buddies beer...he now has bulging bottle caps. I told him to chill it ASAP, move it to a cooler of ice water outside in case there are any bombs. I think he is going to try to uncap, let the bottles sit a little then recap to relieve the pressure. My thoughts are that he just used to much priming sugar...I think he used molasses to prime, but I don't know how much.So, any ideas as to what's going on here, at least with my kegged beer. Help, thoughts, theories?

maybe you both bottled/kegged too soon?

[mach5]

We took about 3-4 weeks between primary and secondary. Then it sat in secondary for 4-5 months before bottling. My buddy saw his issue after bottling, I saw mine after secondary, however I did open the keg at least once to check the progress and make sure there wasn't anything growing in there...then immediately closed it up (no foam issues at the check).

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

We took about 3-4 weeks between primary and secondary. Then it sat in secondary for 4-5 months before bottling. My buddy saw his issue after bottling, I saw mine after secondary, however I did open the keg at least once to check the progress and make sure there wasn't anything growing in there...then immediately closed it up (no foam issues at the check).

I'm confused on your timeline...3-4 weeks for primary AND secondary but then you say 4-5 months of secondary??? so did this beer age 3-4 weeks before bottling/kegging or 4-5 months before bottling/kegging?

[Stout_fan]

And the gravities are.... ???

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

And the gravities are.... ???

this would also help

[mach5]

I would have to check my notes on the gravities but OG is 1.080, I'm pretty sure on that one.To clarify, 3-4 weeks in primary (closer to 4 weeks) and about 4-5 months of secondary, in the keg.

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

I would have to check my notes on the gravities but OG is 1.080, I'm pretty sure on that one.To clarify, 3-4 weeks in primary (closer to 4 weeks) and about 4-5 months of secondary, in the keg.

it sure sounds like some fermentation happened in that keg. now that you have it in a different keg what is going on?

[mach5]

I hit the relief valve this morning and got a little pssst. I just racked it off last night. It is going in the fridge tonight hopefully and I will chill and carb and see how it turns out.I would agree that there is some fermentation going on...almost has to be...but lack of yeast sediment is really throwing me off. Again, could be a contamination too that will show up in a few months...we shall see how this turns out.BTW...my little WTF got modded on another board.

[ncbeerbrewer]

I brewed 10 gallons of Denny Conn Rye IPA back in Aug with an OG of 1.072. After primary was over I even warmed it up a tad for a few days the FG was at 1.018. After it stayed put for a few days more I figured it was over. I transferred from primary to a carboy for mine and friends went to a keg. He finally picked his beer up about a week ago. I saw the same thing as I forgot to vent the keg every couple of days. I have seen yeast such as Denny Fav50 which we used stop after primary then start back up with transfer and there is minimal yeast in the bottom of the secondary as well. My question is what yeast did you use? Like for me I have brewed with Denny yeast several times and it behaves like that often. The FG on the IPA was 1.012, Yeast can still be in your beer even if you don't have a cake to show for it. Sometimes transfer gets it going again and I think you got some fermentation in that keg that caused the foam. If you dispensed any of the beer into a glass was it carbonated at all too?

[mach5]

I did notice some carbonation, very light in the first sample I took...before I spiced it. That was the first time the keg fired up on me.

[ncbeerbrewer]

I did notice some carbonation, very light in the first sample I took...before I spiced it. That was the first time the keg fired up on me.

I know what you mean. I forgot to add too that my share of this beer didn't have any problems but it was in a carboy with an airlock and that let out the extra carbon dioxide. I would not suppose you would get an overwhelming amount of carb out of that though too. Hope it turns out well though for you too.

[Pseudolus]

Could the spice particles be providing an abundance of nucleation sites? In other words, the beer isn't overcarbonated, but all the carbonation is coming out of solution too quickly?

[gnef]

I'm going to ask a question in an entirely different line of thought:What method did you use to chill, and how did you handle the wort before it was split and before the yeast was pitched?To me, it sounds like some sort of infection, especially since both of you have it, and are showing similar symptoms at two different locations, which leads me to believe it is where you had a commonality, which was during the brewday.As for lack of off flavors, I tend to think with how much you have in there, it may take a while to show up.I could be completely wrong, and I hope so for your beer's sake, but I would want to cross this off your list of possibilities if anything.

[mach5]

We chill with an immersion chiller, it goes in the boil 5 minutes before the end. After chilling we split between the two carboys, then each got its own yeast vial. I do not remember lag time being an issue.

[Slainte]

I say take a gravity reading and compare with your FG reading. Be sure to degas it.I bet your issue is contamination. Possibly with all of the spices you might have trouble tasting it. 4 weeks is enough to finish out pretty much any beer. I worked at a homebrew shop for a couple of years, and the majority of samples we got were infected to some degree, often with the brewer not even knowing.If it tastes fine to you, drink it. But I would closely examine your cleaning and sanitation practices.

Could the spice particles be providing an abundance of nucleation sites? In other words, the beer isn't overcarbonated, but all the carbonation is coming out of solution too quickly?

Maybe you didn't read the part where he said the keg was under a ton of pressure and he was showered in beer BEFORE he added spices.

[gnef]

Do you measure out your grains near where you brew/chill?How do you transfer from your BK to your fermenter(s)?What type of tubing do you use post-boil?What equipment touches the wort post-boil?

[mach5]

Do you measure out your grains near where you brew/chill?

No, the grains are all measured at the brewshop...then just put directly into the mash tun...not to mention this was an extract batch, although we did have an AG batch going on nearby at the same time. I think I would have more chance of getting something wild from the environment since I do brew outside...well, in the garage but it is open.

How do you transfer from your BK to your fermenter(s)?

Just pour into a funnel in the carboy then shake the crap out of the carboy to aerate. It's never been a problem.

What type of tubing do you use post-boil?

Just the racking cane and autosiphon to transfer to secondary, its all clear tubing and really easy to tell if its dirty.

What equipment touches the wort post-boil?

Just the stuff mentioned above, nothing out of the ordinary. Everything gets sanitized with starsan and I always leave the foam. I don't deny I have some sort of contamination here, but the fact that the beer tastes OK leads me to believe that if that's all it is, then its not a horribly bad contamination. At least not yet anyway, I do realize these things can develop over time, but I'd think that several months would be time enough to at least be able to taste some off flavors.Thanks for all your replies...if something develops I'll post up about it.

[Stout_fan]

... BTW...my little WTF got modded on another board.

That's why you need to stay around here.This board is a lot more moderate (pardon the pun).Hell, they even let me hang around.

[mach5]

It surprised me but I got way more posts on this forum. People complain that the beer forums aren't as good, but I think they are awesome...plenty of people weiging in and helping me out.