43 replies to this topic

[Buscotucky]

One barrel system, open Sat 12 - 5 & Sun 12 - 4. That's it.    I get starting small with limited hours but that seems a bit extreme.

 

 

Beers were pretty decent for a start up, didn't try the food. About 40 seats, so there's room to make it more of a full time gig.

[Poptop]

I like stuff like this.  Do the owners have full time jobs other than brewing?  How many different types of brew?  It would be interesting to know a little background and vision.  I'd get started small too to be able to afford life until ABInbev buys me hahaha

[Big Nake]

Some local ordinances squeeze places like this.  There is a place near me that's the same way... Friday 6-10, Saturday and Sunday afternoons from 1 to 6 or something.  When we went to Long Trail in Vermont, the brewery had a "visitors center".  It looked like a bar.  It *WAS* a bar.  I called it a bar.  The guy behind the bar said, "It's not a bar.  It's a visitor's center".  We got there around 5pm after a long bike.  They closed at 6. 

[positiveContact]

One barrel system, open Sat 12 - 5 & Sun 12 - 4. That's it. I get starting small with limited hours but that seems a bit extreme.


Beers were pretty decent for a start up, didn't try the food. About 40 seats, so there's room to make it more of a full time gig.

I don't get how you could brew fast enough.

[denny]

One barrel is homebrew, not a business.

[Buscotucky]

I like stuff like this.  Do the owners have full time jobs other than brewing?  How many different types of brew?  It would be interesting to know a little background and vision.  I'd get started small too to be able to afford life until ABInbev buys me hahaha

 

Yeah, there's at least 3 owners, all working full time elsewhere. Currently 8 on tap, no guest taps...from what I've heard, they aren't really banking on getting big, but the building & parking lot could support a full time operation I think. Around 1500 sq. ft. in the taproom, with about that much for brewery/kitchen/bathrooms. I didn't get to see the brewery so I don't know what the tank situation is.

 

I don't get how you could brew fast enough.

 

Only open 9 hours a week & are closed before the supper hour. They won't be able to sell much beer in the time frame I wouldn't think.

 

I don't know how they'll pay the rent even with the seats full.

 

One barrel is homebrew, not a business.

 

Agreed...it's a hobby brewery for sure. Another place in a small town close by started with a one barrel about 3 years ago but with guest taps. They've grown enough for a 3.5 barrel system early this year so they're evidently getting by. No real food to speak of.

 

In a tale of 2 breweries, another place opened in town 6 months ago - 15 barrel system, the brewing partner had a long list of prior head brewer positions in both startups & big established breweries, other partners were experienced in the restaurant business, $100k in reserve, swanky place on the river...and just closed up last month. Evidently the rent was in the $8k a month range, and when the patio shuts down for winter they're left with less than 60 seats. The math didn't work, and you can't help but wonder how they figured their business plan.

[SchwanzBrewer]

One barrel is homebrew, not a business.

I get the gist of your statement, but I think it's very disparaging to many brewers that have laid a lot of money and their livelihood on the line and work damn hard at it. I know several that have been very successful with 1bbl capacity. Telling them they aren't a real business is a slap in the face considering all the hardships they go through just to get open. It's not easy at all to start an alcohol related business from scratch.

[positiveContact]

I'd view it more as tough love in this case. We know Denny loves Homebrewers and beer.

[SchwanzBrewer]

I'd view it more as tough love in this case. We know Denny loves Homebrewers and beer.

If he can give it he can take it. I love Denny, but as a blanket statement he's wrong.

[Big Nake]

If he can give it he can take it. I love Denny, but as a blanket statement he's wrong.

I wonder about the rest of the system because I'm not sure I follow it.  1 barrel is 31 gallons which comes to about 248 pints if my math is right.  If a system was "1 barrel" could there be multiple "serving tanks" and the brewer could maybe produce one barrel of beer every 7-10 days and keep those serving tanks filled with multiple beers?  I understand it's lower capacity but I could see someone brewing that often and possibly keeping the lights on but alas I'm just a homebrewer.  Or... is it that only 31 gallons can be brewed at one time but that beer is fermenting in one of many fermenters so the brewer could actually brew every day?  

[positiveContact]

I wonder about the rest of the system because I'm not sure I follow it.  1 barrel is 31 gallons which comes to about 248 pints if my math is right.  If a system was "1 barrel" could there be multiple "serving tanks" and the brewer could maybe produce one barrel of beer every 7-10 days and keep those serving tanks filled with multiple beers?  I understand it's lower capacity but I could see someone brewing that often and possibly keeping the lights on but alas I'm just a homebrewer.  Or... is it that only 31 gallons can be brewed at one time but that beer is fermenting in one of many fermenters so the brewer could actually brew every day?  

 

it usually means that's the capacity that your HLT/MLT/BK can produce.  It's unclear how many fermentors and possibly storage/bright tanks they have.

[HVB]

I wonder about the rest of the system because I'm not sure I follow it. 1 barrel is 31 gallons which comes to about 248 pints if my math is right. If a system was "1 barrel" could there be multiple "serving tanks" and the brewer could maybe produce one barrel of beer every 7-10 days and keep those serving tanks filled with multiple beers? I understand it's lower capacity but I could see someone brewing that often and possibly keeping the lights on but alas I'm just a homebrewer. Or... is it that only 31 gallons can be brewed at one time but that beer is fermenting in one of many fermenters so the brewer could actually brew every day?

I take 1 bbl to mean in one turn of the brewhouse you make 1bbl of wort. They could have 3bbl fermenters and just do 3 turns a day to fill.

Place local opened that is one barrel and you have to reserve growler fills on eventbrite and they sell out in a few minutes. Hard pass on that for me.

[SchwanzBrewer]

My buddy in Sylva, NC has a 1 bbl. He brews 2-3 bbl a day until he fills his fermenters, of which he has several 2bbl. He kegs everything. No distribution. He's been up and running for 2 years and has added a bistro. He's doing great. Will he get s larger system? Probably eventually but he's brewed over 200 beers in 2 years which leaves room for a lot of perfecting and experimenting. It's a lot of hard work. He's not the only one that has run his business this way, and yes it is a business.

[Buscotucky]

There must be something to the business model...what with Nanocons & a lot of manufacturers making a barrel systems someone's gotta be buying.

 

The new Spike 1 barrel system seems to be pinned to my facebook feed 'cause it's always there, lol. Does look sweet, but at some $16k I think you could get a Blichmann 3.5 barrel & get closer to a "real" business.

[Big Nake]

Brewing 31-gallon batches multiple times per day would be back-breaking at some point.  If you could brew 1 bbl and then transfer it to one of 3 or 4 fermenters and then brew again, etc. it could work.  With multiple serving tanks to transfer to when the beer was done... I could see it.  You just need a good amount of room to move things around once the wort has been made.  In the old days I heard that a small brewery should not start TOO small because expansion is expensive.  Don't start with the smallest configuration... allow for growth from the start so you don't waste time expanding.  OTOH, some may be squeamish and think "start small and then see how it goes.  If my brewery is successful and I need to expand, that would be a good problem to have".  The newer place here (Buffalo Creek Brewing Co., I think) had a sort of sterile atmosphere, the beer styles that he had were kind of off-the-map and neither of the beers I tried were all that great.  Having great beer is a plus.  I realize it's not everything but for the love of man, have good beer. 

[SchwanzBrewer]

My buddy in nc has an electric system and hot water on demand. We brewed 2 bbl all cleaned up and drinking a beer in 8 hours. Wasn't really hard at all. When I was brewing 1 bbl on a simple gas system it would take me 9 to 12 hours for 1 bbl. It's all about setting yourself up properly and being efficient.

[Big Nake]

My buddy in nc has an electric system and hot water on demand. We brewed 2 bbl all cleaned up and drinking a beer in 8 hours. Wasn't really hard at all. When I was brewing 1 bbl on a simple gas system it would take me 9 to 12 hours for 1 bbl. It's all about setting yourself up properly and being efficient.

Work smarter, not harder. 

[Seven]

I'll be brewing one of my beers on a local brewery's 1bbl system in a week and a half. All electric, 3 vessel system (Spike I believe) with pumps galore. Hardest part will be pouring the grains into the mash tun.

[denny]

If he can give it he can take it. I love Denny, but as a blanket statement he's wrong.

 

Ya know, as someone who ran his own small business for 30 years, I have more perspective than you might realize.

There must be something to the business model...what with Nanocons & a lot of manufacturers making a barrel systems someone's gotta be buying.

 

The new Spike 1 barrel system seems to be pinned to my facebook feed 'cause it's always there, lol. Does look sweet, but at some $16k I think you could get a Blichmann 3.5 barrel & get closer to a "real" business.

 

The fact that something can be sold to people is not a sign of viability, but of "hope springs eternal" for the people who buy those products

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Edited by denny, 05 November 2019 - 01:04 PM.

[Buscotucky]

 

The fact that something can be sold to people is not a sign of viability, but of "hope springs eternal" for the people who buy those products

.

 

It'll be interesting to see how it shakes out in the next few years - how many shut down, how many grow into a larger system & how many just plug along 1 barrel at a time. The Brewers Association will probably have some numbers down the road, if they don't already. I think the nano definition includes up to 3.5 or 5 barrels, so may not break out the single barrel guys.