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#21 davelew

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Posted 12 September 2019 - 07:34 AM

It will be interesting to see what true EV maintenance costs will be compared to ICE, as more EVs penetrate the market.  Most of the mechanical stuff is gone, outside brakes and suspension and interior goodies.  I wonder what the replacement cost for the electric drive motors is?

 

I doubt the motors will wear out, there's not much to go wrong in a brushless DC motor.  I'd be more worried about the IGBTs in the power electronics, but those can be designed to be highly reliable if you know what you're doing and handle the thermal stresses well. 


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#22 Zsasz

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Posted 12 September 2019 - 08:43 AM

I doubt the motors will wear out, there's not much to go wrong in a brushless DC motor.  I'd be more worried about the IGBTs in the power electronics, but those can be designed to be highly reliable if you know what you're doing and handle the thermal stresses well. 

 

you are one of those people that puts acronyms in a presentation and never defines them, aren't you?


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#23 HVB

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Posted 12 September 2019 - 08:52 AM

you are one of those people that puts acronyms in a presentation and never defines them, aren't you?

DC means Direct Current  :P  :troll:


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#24 davelew

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Posted 12 September 2019 - 08:58 AM

you are one of those people that puts acronyms in a presentation and never defines them, aren't you?

 

IGBT is the name of the transistor inside the TO-247 packages.


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#25 Zsasz

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Posted 12 September 2019 - 08:59 AM

IGBT is the name of the transistor inside the TO-247 packages.

 

doubling down now?


DC means Direct Current  :P  :troll:

 

thanks  <_<  ;)


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#26 Vagus

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Posted 12 September 2019 - 09:17 AM

IGBT is the name of the transistor inside the TO-247 packages.

I thought you just used a lower case L


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#27 JKor

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Posted 12 September 2019 - 09:39 AM

TO247-Type-MC.jpg


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#28 Stout_fan

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Posted 12 September 2019 - 10:17 AM

By that point you might have 100 oil changes on an ICE car, so battery cost is equivalent to a $30 - $50 oil change every 3,000 miles. That seems like a cost I could live with.

Thanks for the analysis but I put in $50 of Red Line racing lube every 10k. According to spec and oil analysis, I could go for 15k but I want to change it early just to be safe. Throwing in a filter for $6 brings that to a whopping $56 per 10k miles. At 300k I've spent $1680.

HOWEVER, I think you could make a better case on brake wear, cat  and antifreeze replacement. By the time I got home from work commute at 100 miles a day, those batteries have got to be close to toast. So on this 300k mile, what is the percentage of discharge before recharging? That's what whacks the snot out of rechargeable batteries.

 

In a side bar: Want your cell-phone battery to last longer? Don't run it down to 10%, or dead like a lot of my friends do.


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#29 Stout_fan

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Posted 12 September 2019 - 10:24 AM

IGBT is the name of the transistor inside the TO-247 packages.

Insulated Gate Bipolar Transistor

It has nothing to do with case size. The ones I worked with for high voltage inverters were a bit larger.

Basically it's a FET (Field Effect Transistor) driving a BJT (Bipolar junction Transistor).

The FET gives you a high input Z, and the BJT gave you a real low Vsat (Saturation voltage).


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#30 Zsasz

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Posted 12 September 2019 - 10:29 AM

TO247-Type-MC.jpg

 

ooooeeeee!!  look at the dimensions on that one!


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#31 davelew

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Posted 12 September 2019 - 10:29 AM

Insulated Gate Bipolar Transistor

It has nothing to do with case size. The ones I worked with for high voltage inverters were a bit larger.

Basically it's a FET (Field Effect Transistor) driving a BJT (Bipolar junction Transistor).

The FET gives you a high input Z, and the BJT gave you a real low Vsat (Saturation voltage).

 

Well, if you want everyone to understand, it's an HPS (high power switch) with NMP (no moving parts), with the important stuff made from an MSC (mostly silicon chunk).


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#32 JKor

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Posted 12 September 2019 - 10:30 AM

ooooeeeee!!  look at the dimensions on that one!

 

 

mm


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#33 davelew

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Posted 12 September 2019 - 10:34 AM

TO247-Type-MC.jpg

 

Here's a picture of 28 of those bent over doggy-style:

 

Damaged-IGBTs-e1442318721253.jpg


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#34 HVB

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Posted 12 September 2019 - 10:45 AM

Size maters :)

 

IM2015040626EM_300dpi.jpg

 

 


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#35 the_stain

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Posted 12 September 2019 - 10:50 AM

Thanks for the analysis but I put in $50 of Red Line racing lube every 10k. According to spec and oil analysis, I could go for 15k but I want to change it early just to be safe. Throwing in a filter for $6 brings that to a whopping $56 per 10k miles. At 300k I've spent $1680.
HOWEVER, I think you could make a better case on brake wear, cat and antifreeze replacement. By the time I got home from work commute at 100 miles a day, those batteries have got to be close to toast. So on this 300k mile, what is the percentage of discharge before recharging? That's what whacks the snot out of rechargeable batteries.

In a side bar: Want your cell-phone battery to last longer? Don't run it down to 10%, or dead like a lot of my friends do.


I was under the impression that for Lithium based varieties this was not true. They have a finite number of charge cycles, so you are better off charging it less frequently. If you let it run down to only 70% and then charge it again, you've essentially "used up" one charge cycle. Best practice I'd always heard was let it run down as far as you can before charging again, so you don't waste a cycle on a small charge.
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#36 Genesee Ted

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Posted 12 September 2019 - 10:57 AM

Well now I want to know when I should charge my phone, but I would love to have a Tesla

#37 Zsasz

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Posted 12 September 2019 - 11:16 AM

Size maters :)

 

IM2015040626EM_300dpi.jpg

 

is that a really long extension cord on the ground? :lol:


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#38 HVB

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Posted 12 September 2019 - 11:24 AM

is that a really long extension cord on the ground? :lol:

 

No, most likely communication/protection/monitoring wiring


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#39 JKor

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Posted 12 September 2019 - 11:25 AM

Here's a picture of 28 of those bent over doggy-style:

Damaged-IGBTs-e1442318721253.jpg


They look like they're reading to get squirted...with thermal paste.
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#40 porter

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Posted 12 September 2019 - 11:29 AM

I was under the impression that for Lithium based varieties this was not true. They have a finite number of charge cycles, so you are better off charging it less frequently. If you let it run down to only 70% and then charge it again, you've essentially "used up" one charge cycle. Best practice I'd always heard was let it run down as far as you can before charging again, so you don't waste a cycle on a small charge.


That's not how it works at all.

https://batteryunive...based_batteries
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