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#81 Brownbeard

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Posted 06 August 2019 - 11:50 AM

In what way, any kind of way, could you legislate an even somewhat accurate way to identify people willing to kill needlessly? It seems virtually impossible.

Psychiatrist says "This guy is dangerous".  Cops say "We know he has guns, we will get them".  


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#82 Trub L

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Posted 06 August 2019 - 11:51 AM

Yeah, having your name written down when you purchase a weapon exceeding a certain lethality doesn't seem like a huge concession to make.

Hell, they typically already do this for not just motor vehicles, but many household appliances and lawn care equipment items already.

Edited by Trub L, 06 August 2019 - 11:54 AM.

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#83 TxBrewer

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Posted 06 August 2019 - 11:52 AM

I'm not saying they would or wouldn't.

But if we agree this issue can be solved, then it will probably take compromise on both sides, and sacrifices.

It seems impossible to compromise when you start by offering a list of things you will never, ever compromise on.

Gun owners are willing to compromise on mandatory background checks as long as they are reasonable price, aren't individual to the gun but the transaction and are not tracking serial numbers.

Stain : no you aren't compromising.

Edited by TxBrewer, 06 August 2019 - 11:53 AM.

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#84 KSUwildcatFAN

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Posted 06 August 2019 - 11:54 AM

I'm not saying they would or wouldn't.

But if we agree this issue can be solved, then it will probably take compromise on both sides, and sacrifices.

It seems impossible to compromise when you start by offering a list of things you will never, ever compromise on.

I'm pro gun too, and if I heard of a decent way, I could get on board. I don't object to background checks as it is, that's not a high hurdle. Shit I don't rent apartments to people without getting a full criminal/credit/eviction background check.

I'm not real sure that would even matter. Couple that with the millions of available guns already in the American public, and I see no real solution. What's going on inside of a person's head is largely easy to hide (unless full on legit schizophrenia or whatever) and guns are too easily attainable.

Making guns illegal to own would also be fruitless. I see the hard road as the only road. I hope I'm wrong. But a real cultural change is needed. Not to get to "hippie" here, but maybe we freakin' need classes on compassion/understanding from K-12. It's a longer, harder road that way, but I don't see another way out of it all.
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#85 Stains_not_here_man

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Posted 06 August 2019 - 11:54 AM

Gun owners are willing to compromise on mandatory background checks as long as they are reasonable price, aren't individual to the gun but the transaction and are not tracking serial numbers.

Stain : no you aren't compromising.



I don't object to them but they won't stop most mass shootings. The El Paso shooter passed one.
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#86 Mickey

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Posted 06 August 2019 - 11:55 AM

Yeah, having your name written down when you purchase a weapon exceeding a certain lethality doesn't seem like a huge concession to make.


Exactly.. However that’s a list(lists are bad, ask weeper) and then they’ll come “take your guns”...
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#87 TxBrewer

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Posted 06 August 2019 - 11:57 AM

I don't object to them but they won't stop most mass shootings. The El Paso shooter passed one.


You won't get an argument there, I have been saying that for years. But politicians aren't trying to stop them they are using them to push an agenda.

Exactly.. However that’s a list(lists are bad, ask weeper) and then they’ll come “take your guns”...


After Bidens comments today that is a good reason why not to support any type of registration
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#88 Stains_not_here_man

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Posted 06 August 2019 - 11:57 AM

Yeah, having your name written down when you purchase a weapon exceeding a certain lethality doesn't seem like a huge concession to make.

Hell, they typically already do this for not just motor vehicles, but many household appliances and lawn care equipment items already.


Yep, but as TxBrewer has pointed out, the "gun people" will never ever go for it. "I don't want the government to know I have a gun!" I understand the sentiment, but on the other hand, sometimes you live with shit you don't like.
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#89 KSUwildcatFAN

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Posted 06 August 2019 - 11:59 AM

Psychiatrist says "This guy is dangerous". Cops say "We know he has guns, we will get them".

Sure, but let's assume I personally have a major axe to grind w/ X group of people and I decide I have to kill a bunch of them. But I don't own a gun, what now? Oh, I'll just buy one. But they make me sit down and do a 30 minute psych evaluation. Do you think I could give the right answers, or would I not be able to help myself from blurting out my intentions of murdering a bunch of people?

I think most of these people, as troubled as they are, know how to lie.
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#90 Brownbeard

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Posted 06 August 2019 - 12:00 PM

If a psychiatrist could flag a person, the Dayton shooter would not have been able to have a gun.  With all the stuff coming about that kid, everyone knew.  I still think licensing and insurance (maybe limit insurance to certain types of guns) is a good idea.  


Sure, but let's assume I personally have a major axe to grind w/ X group of people and I decide I have to kill a bunch of them. But I don't own a gun, what now? Oh, I'll just buy one. But they make me sit down and do a 30 minute psych evaluation. Do you think I could give the right answers, or would I not be able to help myself from blurting out my intentions of murdering a bunch of people?

I think most of these people, as troubled as they are, know how to lie.

That kid in Dayton was known to be a nutter.  He was obsessed with mass shootings.  


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#91 KSUwildcatFAN

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Posted 06 August 2019 - 12:06 PM

That may be true, but he also may well have been together enough to know what answers to give if the psychiatrist. I'll admit I don't know, but neither does anybody else.

It also doesn't address the fact that he could have bought plenty of guns through private sale. There are millions of them out there.
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#92 Sidney Porter

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Posted 06 August 2019 - 12:19 PM

I don't see where you got that from my post. I know that I will not support the government keeping a registry of guns. How that becomes not contributing to solving the problem though is on you. I don't see how registries would prevent mass shootings. You will have to explain that correlation

a lot of mass shootings are gang related (more than 4 people shot, this is where the 250 number comes up). A lot of these guns are obtained through straw purchases. If you could identify non gun dealers that buy a lot of guns you could investigate if they are just a collector or if there is reason to suspect they are supplying gangs.
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#93 Brownbeard

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Posted 06 August 2019 - 12:20 PM

a lot of mass shootings are gang related (more than 4 people shot, this is where the 250 number comes up). A lot of these guns are obtained through straw purchases. If you could identify non gun dealers that buy a lot of guns you could investigate if they are just a collector or if there is reason to suspect they are supplying gangs.

Yep


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#94 Sidney Porter

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Posted 06 August 2019 - 12:23 PM

If a psychiatrist could flag a person, the Dayton shooter would not have been able to have a gun. With all the stuff coming about that kid, everyone knew. I still think licensing and insurance (maybe limit insurance to certain types of guns) is a good idea.

That kid in Dayton was known to be a nutter. He was obsessed with mass shootings.

he had a police record based upon threats when he was in high school. Those records were sealed / destroyed because he was a minor. The police / court system failed in this example
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#95 dagomike

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Posted 06 August 2019 - 12:35 PM

Sure, but let's assume I personally have a major axe to grind w/ X group of people and I decide I have to kill a bunch of them. But I don't own a gun, what now? Oh, I'll just buy one. But they make me sit down and do a 30 minute psych evaluation. Do you think I could give the right answers, or would I not be able to help myself from blurting out my intentions of murdering a bunch of people?

I think most of these people, as troubled as they are, know how to lie.

 

 

When I bought my gun a guy was in there answered the questionnaire. The question was about something about ever being diagnosed with mental illness or something. He told the gun store guy he'd have to call his psychologist to answer that. They didn't sell him a gun.

 

I think I skimmed the LA Times had a big research piece on the commonalities of these shooters. They have a history of trauma of different types. That would be a good place to start for additional screening, not just that whether you're currently crazy.

 

Also, if we go down the mental health solution, everyone needs to be comfortable with people having guns confiscated. Mental heath isn't a static state of being for perpetuity. In addition to prior to a sale, you should probably have to screened if you own a gun and experience a traumatic life event (family death, abuse, divorce, etc). Perhaps screened more than once. 


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#96 orudis

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Posted 06 August 2019 - 01:06 PM

“Do you feel threatened by the idea of living in a diverse, pluralistic society?”
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#97 ER Pemberton

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Posted 06 August 2019 - 01:09 PM

I missed some of this but... was the weapon used in the Dayton shooting a standard-issue gun or would it be considered a heavy-hitter?  I thought I saw a picture of it and it looked a bit more menacing than most but again... I'm not a gun person.  


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#98 BrewerGeorge

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Posted 06 August 2019 - 01:31 PM


 

I'm not saying they would or wouldn't.

But if we agree this issue can be solved, then it will probably take compromise on both sides, and sacrifices.

It seems impossible to compromise when you start by offering a list of things you will never, ever compromise on.

We're already compromising a Constitutional right that includes the language "shall not be infringed."  That's enough.  I will never, ever compromise on anything that includes registration, nor will I ever comply with mandatory registration.
 

Exactly.. However that’s a list(lists are bad, ask weeper) and then they’ll come “take your guns”...

Every registration scheme ever enacted has ultimately resulted in confiscation.  Every.  One.  Excuse me if I'm willing to learn from history.



#99 BrewerGeorge

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Posted 06 August 2019 - 01:34 PM

I missed some of this but... was the weapon used in the Dayton shooting a standard-issue gun or would it be considered a heavy-hitter?  I thought I saw a picture of it and it looked a bit more menacing than most but again... I'm not a gun person.  

It was a weird configuration, but essentially just an AR-15 in .223 with a drum magazine.

 

Not a 'machine gun' as was initially reported.



#100 miccullen

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Posted 06 August 2019 - 01:52 PM

Yeah, having your name written down when you purchase a weapon exceeding a certain lethality doesn't seem like a huge concession to make.

Hell, they typically already do this for not just motor vehicles, but many household appliances and lawn care equipment items already.

it''s one of the NRA boogeyman tactics, they basically equate a registry with a list of who to target when confiscation inevitably comes


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