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Headscratching clarity issue...


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#41 HVB

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Posted 03 June 2019 - 04:50 PM

Being a wheat beer, it looks exactly like I'd expect a wheat to look, except for the part about it not being meant to be hazy.

What yeast did you use for the wheat?


I always think an American wheat is just Chico yeast.

#42 Big Nake

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Posted 03 June 2019 - 05:02 PM

Being a wheat beer, it looks exactly like I'd expect a wheat to look, except for the part about it not being meant to be hazy.
 
What yeast did you use for the wheat?


I always think an American wheat is just Chico yeast.

Yep. This is another of the six 1056 beers. Not one of these beers have been clear. I understand the part about the wheat beer being hazy but this thing should look like a clear blonde ale. There is nothing that I did (or would ever do) to intentionally make a beer look like this. The really frightening thing is if this first 2124 beer comes out hazy. If that happens I will truly be scratching my head because it would suggest that something else is off and I would have no idea where to start looking because nothing has changed in my ingredients or processes.

#43 Bklmt2000

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Posted 03 June 2019 - 06:29 PM

Yep. This is another of the six 1056 beers. Not one of these beers have been clear. I understand the part about the wheat beer being hazy but this thing should look like a clear blonde ale. There is nothing that I did (or would ever do) to intentionally make a beer look like this. The really frightening thing is if this first 2124 beer comes out hazy. If that happens I will truly be scratching my head because it would suggest that something else is off and I would have no idea where to start looking because nothing has changed in my ingredients or processes.

 

I had a suspicion that the 1056 that was a problem with the other batches was the culprit here.

 

I'm optimistic that the forthcoming 2124 batch will be fine.  I recall from other recent posts in this thread that a fairly recent batch w/ 2124 and also one with 2112 were clear as normal, and that your processes with those batches were the same as the process for the wayward 1056 batches, hence my optimism.

 

If things go sideways, the BFBTRRT (Beer Forum Brain Trust Rapid Response Team) will be on standby.  :D



#44 Big Nake

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Posted 03 June 2019 - 06:45 PM

I had a suspicion that the 1056 that was a problem with the other batches was the culprit here.
 
I'm optimistic that the forthcoming 2124 batch will be fine.  I recall from other recent posts in this thread that a fairly recent batch w/ 2124 and also one with 2112 were clear as normal, and that your processes with those batches were the same as the process for the wayward 1056 batches, hence my optimism.
 
If things go sideways, the BFBTRRT (Beer Forum Brain Trust Rapid Response Team) will be on standby.  :D

Yeah, some recent 2782 and 2112 beers were clear.  Also, the fermenter I'm using on this 2124 beer is a sort of translucent plastic and I can already see (here on day 8) that the beer is clearing on top of the beer and working its way down.  I sent this most recent pic to the guy I was talking with at Wyeast (he's no longer communicating with me) and if the 2124 beer comes out clear I will send him a pic of that beer as well.  Either way it's really weird.  If it turns out the yeast is to blame... how is THAT explained?  Should I be concerned about using 1056?  Should I move over to WL001 instead?  It's just really frustrating because even though I can put the beer into a ceramic mug, others are drinking these beers.  Yesterday afternoon I was at the store and when I came home my inlaws were here and my FIL was drinking the cloudy pale ale.  It looked positively dismal in the glass.  But he did ask for a second glass of it so... clearly the flavor of the beer is okay.  



#45 Bklmt2000

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Posted 03 June 2019 - 06:52 PM

Yeah, some recent 2782 and 2112 beers were clear.  Also, the fermenter I'm using on this 2124 beer is a sort of translucent plastic and I can already see (here on day 8) that the beer is clearing on top of the beer and working its way down.  I sent this most recent pic to the guy I was talking with at Wyeast (he's no longer communicating with me) and if the 2124 beer comes out clear I will send him a pic of that beer as well.  Either way it's really weird.  If it turns out the yeast is to blame... how is THAT explained?  Should I be concerned about using 1056?  Should I move over to WL001 instead?  It's just really frustrating because even though I can put the beer into a ceramic mug, others are drinking these beers.  Yesterday afternoon I was at the store and when I came home my inlaws were here and my FIL was drinking the cloudy pale ale.  It looked positively dismal in the glass.  But he did ask for a second glass of it so... clearly the flavor of the beer is okay.  

 

No good answer on the yeast question, mang.  Can't say if you should be concerned or not over using 1056 (I use US05 so I'm no help there), but it might be worth trying out WLP001 for a bit and see how that goes.

 

My thinking is, if you go the 001 route, if everything else stays the same (equipment, processes, etc.) and you get the expected clear beer, I'd chalk it up to a bad batch of 1056 and just some bad luck/timing.

 

If said beers were to turn out cloudy, too, then a closer look at the process side might be in order.

 

Just a few more random thoughts.



#46 Big Nake

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Posted 07 June 2019 - 04:01 PM

Fellow beerheads:  I wanted to bounce this off of you because it was not mentioned here or in my string of emails with the guy at Wyeast.  It came to me today... over the past year or maybe 18 months I have been very focused on getting super clear wort into the fermenter when I transfer from the kettle.  I have tweaked things so that I am able to get 100% clear wort (I'm not saying that there is NO trub but it's pretty good) and these six batches were no exception.  Very clear wort went into the fermenter and the yeast was pitched during the transfer.  This *HAS* to point to the yeast, no?  Just thinking out loud.



#47 Bklmt2000

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Posted 07 June 2019 - 07:08 PM

Fellow beerheads:  I wanted to bounce this off of you because it was not mentioned here or in my string of emails with the guy at Wyeast.  It came to me today... over the past year or maybe 18 months I have been very focused on getting super clear wort into the fermenter when I transfer from the kettle.  I have tweaked things so that I am able to get 100% clear wort (I'm not saying that there is NO trub but it's pretty good) and these six batches were no exception.  Very clear wort went into the fermenter and the yeast was pitched during the transfer.  This *HAS* to point to the yeast, no?  Just thinking out loud.

 

Do you always add the yeast during transfer from kettle to fermenter, or is this unique to the batches with the suspect 1056?



#48 positiveContact

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Posted 08 June 2019 - 02:56 AM

Fellow beerheads: I wanted to bounce this off of you because it was not mentioned here or in my string of emails with the guy at Wyeast. It came to me today... over the past year or maybe 18 months I have been very focused on getting super clear wort into the fermenter when I transfer from the kettle. I have tweaked things so that I am able to get 100% clear wort (I'm not saying that there is NO trub but it's pretty good) and these six batches were no exception. Very clear wort went into the fermenter and the yeast was pitched during the transfer. This *HAS* to point to the yeast, no? Just thinking out loud.


With brewing 1+1 does not always equal 2. That is my thought anyway. Clear wort into the fermenter doesn't mean there can't be something that happens during fermentation to cause a clarity issue. So related to the yeast probably but that may not be the whole story. For the record I make minimal effort to keep trub and stuff from the kettle out of my wort. Quite the opposite in fact beyond large hop bits that would clog up my dip tube. You should see the grain bits that make it out the mash tun! It would scare you for sure ;)

 

check out this helles.  not 100% clear there but if the past few days are any indicator it will be crystal clear very shortly.  this is exactly 3 weeks since brew day.  I don't use anything on the cold side aid with clarity.

 

eYzU27z.jpg


Edited by Zsasz, 08 June 2019 - 03:01 AM.


#49 Big Nake

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Posted 08 June 2019 - 06:05 AM

Do you always add the yeast during transfer from kettle to fermenter, or is this unique to the batches with the suspect 1056?

Yes, for about the last 18 months.  It's a low-oxygen thing... get the yeast in there as quickly as possible so they can start taking up that O2.  What I'm thinking is that you might have something with a low-vigor boil that creates a cloudy wort or any of a hundred other things.  But I had clear wort going into the fermenter on pretty much every batch since January of 2018 (give or take).  I just thought it was a point that hadn't been explored.



#50 Bklmt2000

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Posted 08 June 2019 - 07:11 AM

Yes, for about the last 18 months.  It's a low-oxygen thing... get the yeast in there as quickly as possible so they can start taking up that O2.  What I'm thinking is that you might have something with a low-vigor boil that creates a cloudy wort or any of a hundred other things.  But I had clear wort going into the fermenter on pretty much every batch since January of 2018 (give or take).  I just thought it was a point that hadn't been explored.

 

Leave no stone unturned.  Situations like this can be maddening, no doubt.

 

Still seems like a bum packet of 1056 is the culprit here.



#51 Big Nake

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Posted 08 June 2019 - 07:19 AM

I have a helles made with 2124 (brewed on Memorial Day) that is kegged, cold and carbing.  At some point I will take a sample of it and check its clarity.  If it looks the way I expect it to, this just has to come down to the 1056, IMO.  I realize that sounds weird even after all of this noodling over it but I can't see what else it could be.  Cheers.



#52 Big Nake

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Posted 09 June 2019 - 07:06 PM

I went to a nice beer fest yesterday that was put on by a local brewery (Tighthead Brewing).  I know the brewer there and I went to see him and get a few pours.  He's a Siebel graduate and I've known him for years so I thought I would bounce this clarity issue off of him.  As I described the situation, he had a knowing look on his face.  Eventually he told me that he orders his version of "Chico" from a commercial yeast place and that they call it "something-001"... it was like EF-001 or something.  He says it's called that because it's basically White Labs 001 which is 1056.  He told me he had the exact same issue with a bunch of beers made with that yeast a couple of summers ago.  He said he wondered about the ground water temp maybe not getting the beer temp down quickly, etc. but otherwise had NO idea why it happened.  He moved onto different yeast and his beers were fine.  Eventually he started up more batches of the 001 beers and ordered a new sample and... same thing.  He said he has made A LOT of beer with this yeast and most of it has come out exactly how he would expect... clear.  But twice the 001 has acted this way.  I felt a little better knowing this.  



#53 MyaCullen

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Posted 09 June 2019 - 07:12 PM

I went to a nice beer fest yesterday that was put on by a local brewery (Tighthead Brewing).  I know the brewer there and I went to see him and get a few pours.  He's a Siebel graduate and I've known him for years so I thought I would bounce this clarity issue off of him.  As I described the situation, he had a knowing look on his face.  Eventually he told me that he orders his version of "Chico" from a commercial yeast place and that they call it "something-001"... it was like EF-001 or something.  He says it's called that because it's basically White Labs 001 which is 1056.  He told me he had the exact same issue with a bunch of beers made with that yeast a couple of summers ago.  He said he wondered about the ground water temp maybe not getting the beer temp down quickly, etc. but otherwise had NO idea why it happened.  He moved onto different yeast and his beers were fine.  Eventually he started up more batches of the 001 beers and ordered a new sample and... same thing.  He said he has made A LOT of beer with this yeast and most of it has come out exactly how he would expect... clear.  But twice the 001 has acted this way.  I felt a little better knowing this.  

I've had US-05 do the exact same thing.



#54 Big Nake

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Posted 09 June 2019 - 07:40 PM

I've had US-05 do the exact same thing.

Interesting.  No other factors at play?  Everything else seemed to be the same in terms of process and ingredients?  I'm glad to know about all of these anomalies and I wonder if I should switch my neutral ale strain over to 1028 or something.   




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