35 replies to this topic

[No Party JKor]

what's the recipe?

[RommelMagic]

Uuummmm. By the numbers, my guess is 23A, 1c, 1d, or 1e. :lol:EDIT: Oh, and no, being original wouldn't matter if it does not fit the style. It might be a great beer, but a proper judge would ding it if it was not true to style.2008 BJCP Guidelines (PDF)

Edited by RommelMagic, 11 November 2009 - 06:52 PM.

[No Party JKor]

Sounds like Vienna Lager to me. Would you call it pale or amber? If it could reasonably be described as amber, I'd go Vienna.Disclaimer: I'm not a BJCP judge.

[earthtone]

its that toasty flavor that throws it off style though. it sucks to be original

only if you wanna enter a comp.....

[No Party JKor]

its that toasty flavor that throws it off style though. it sucks to be original

The style guidelines call out a toasty aroma and flavor.

[MtnBrewer]

The style guidelines call out a toasty aroma and flavor.

Right. I think it's worth entering in Cat. 3. How well it does will depend on how toasty it is, how much the hop aroma and flavor come through and how good the judges are. Just based on the recipe you will probably get dinged for too much late addition hops and possibly the toasted grain if it ends up being nutty.

[Stout_fan]

I had a clone of Moorehouse's Black Cat. I entered it in English Mild. The FIRST reference beer IS Black Cat. I was dinged a point for being outside SRM specs. You can't win

[No Party JKor]

If 'toasty' is really the predominant flavor, maybe category 23 is better....or both.

[ChicagoWaterGuy]

its that toasty flavor that throws it off style though. it sucks to be original

If your goal was to be original, then enter it in 23. It seems like a waste of $6 to enter it in Vienna or Octoberfest. A good judge is going to tell you what you already know, its not to style.

[MtnBrewer]

I personally don't think it stands a chance in Cat 23. Cat 23 is dominated by wacky, off-the-wall, drewseslu-esque beers. Something that's just barely out of style in the other categories is going to get crucified most likely. I don't know how toasty it is but just from the recipe, I think the late addition hops are the bigger problem. If the toastiness is dominant then you'll get whacked for that too of course. But if it's subtle, you may do ok.

[No Party JKor]

I personally don't think it stands a chance in Cat 23. Cat 23 is dominated by wacky, off-the-wall, drewseslu-esque beers. Something that's just barely out of style in the other categories is going to get crucified most likely. I don't know how toasty it is but just from the recipe, I think the late addition hops are the bigger problem. If the toastiness is dominant then you'll get whacked for that too of course. But if it's subtle, you may do ok.

I don't have much experience in competition, but that's also my sense. An extra toasty lager in 23 is like bringing a knife to a gun fight.

[MtnBrewer]

I don't have much experience in competition, but that's also my sense. An extra toasty lager in 23 is like bringing a knife to a gun fight.

More like a spatula but yeah...

[Howie]

I had a clone of Moorehouse's Black Cat. I entered it in English Mild. The FIRST reference beer IS Black Cat. I was dinged a point for being outside SRM specs. You can't win

How accurate was your clone in side by side comparisons to the original?

[Thirsty]

I don't have much experience in competition, but that's also my sense. An extra toasty lager in 23 is like bringing a knife to a gun fight.

I have to disagree. 23 is a catchall, not extreme beers. Many brewere make extreme beers and enter them here, but the judging is not subjective, the entries are not compared to eachother, but instead compared to the guidelines. If there is a traditional recipe, but a nontraditional ingredient or process- and the beer tastes good, then it should do well regardless of the other entries. the nontraditional factor does not need to be off the wall out of the box, it just needs to be unacceptable in its traditional style. Now if you used pilsner malt and lightly toasted it to vienna color, then I would say different, however vienna should not yield any roast flavor, so to notice it is kilned too far. I am taking the exam on saturday, FWIW if I draw cat 23 to make my recipe question, I will submit a hometoasted Vienna lager and see how it does!!

[MtnBrewer]

I have to disagree. 23 is a catchall, not extreme beers. Many brewere make extreme beers and enter them here, but the judging is not subjective, the entries are not compared to eachother, but instead compared to the guidelines. If there is a traditional recipe, but a nontraditional ingredient or process- and the beer tastes good, then it should do well regardless of the other entries. the nontraditional factor does not need to be off the wall out of the box, it just needs to be unacceptable in its traditional style.

I agree but the tendency of judges is to prefer the ones that are a little far out.

Now if you used pilsner malt and lightly toasted it to vienna color, then I would say different, however vienna should not yield any roast flavor, so to notice it is kilned too far. I am taking the exam on saturday, FWIW if I draw cat 23 to make my recipe question, I will submit a hometoasted Vienna lager and see how it does!!

Good luck on the exam. Mine's not until April. I'm not sure but I don't think Cat 23 is used on the recipe question, so I think you're safe on that one.

[Thirsty]

Good luck on the exam. Mine's not until April. I'm not sure but I don't think Cat 23 is used on the recipe question, so I think you're safe on that one.

Yeah, I was just screwin around, none of the specialties are suggested categories, I am really hoping to pull a style I have done over and over, but I will probably end up with a Rauchbier or Berlierweisse with my luck! The one thing I forgot about preparing for was the yeast strains I know what should be used for most styles, but if they are not ones I brew often or not at all, I have to now memorize the strains. On top of the rest.

[Sidney Porter]

You will have a tough time in 23. It is usually a popular cat so you will probably have 2 rounds if the comp is of a decent size. You will have to contend with 4 judges who could have: too small, not weird enough, or would be better placed in, complexes. You will have better chance in the one of the lager cat either a vienna, or a dortmunder depending on how it taste.