Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Iodophor...


  • Please log in to reply
30 replies to this topic

#1 ER Pemberton

ER Pemberton

    Comptroller of Forum Content

  • Moderators
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 34228 posts

Posted 15 January 2019 - 08:00 PM

The guys on the low-O2 board mentioned using iodophor over Starsan.  I forget the specific reason but I think it had something to do with it having a wider range of sanitizing power.  I never, ever had an issue with Starsan but I did buy a bottle of iodophor.  With all the brewing I've done lately I ran out of Starsan and started using the iodophor with good results.  I always keep a bucket of sanitizer from the latest batch in case I need to do a quick sanitizing (flask, funnel, etc).  The iodophor solution I have in this bucket (from January 6) looks like it has lost most of its color and some articles online mention that iodophor solution doesn't last as long as Starsan.  I'm transferring a beer tomorrow and I'd like to sanitize some things so I'm thinking of just adding 2 caps full of iodophor to the existing water (2 caps is the suggested 5 gallon amount).  Anyone see an issue with that?

 

Ps.  Using (and smelling) iodophor reminds me of brewing when I was a newbie.  It's one of the more memorable smells from brewday.  



#2 Zsasz

Zsasz

    Anti-Brag Queen

  • Patron
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 40141 posts
  • LocationLimbo

Posted 16 January 2019 - 05:33 AM

The guys on the low-O2 board mentioned using iodophor over Starsan.  I forget the specific reason but I think it had something to do with it having a wider range of sanitizing power.  I never, ever had an issue with Starsan but I did buy a bottle of iodophor.  With all the brewing I've done lately I ran out of Starsan and started using the iodophor with good results.  I always keep a bucket of sanitizer from the latest batch in case I need to do a quick sanitizing (flask, funnel, etc).  The iodophor solution I have in this bucket (from January 6) looks like it has lost most of its color and some articles online mention that iodophor solution doesn't last as long as Starsan.  I'm transferring a beer tomorrow and I'd like to sanitize some things so I'm thinking of just adding 2 caps full of iodophor to the existing water (2 caps is the suggested 5 gallon amount).  Anyone see an issue with that?

 

Ps.  Using (and smelling) iodophor reminds me of brewing when I was a newbie.  It's one of the more memorable smells from brewday.  

 

I'd just use new water but it's probably fine.


  • 1

#3 Poptop

Poptop

    Frequent Member

  • Patron
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 4794 posts
  • LocationCoconut Creek, FL

Posted 16 January 2019 - 06:23 AM

For the cost and amount I'd go new too.

 

I'm using both Starsan and Iodophor.  Changing it up keeps the boogie men at bay


  • 1

#4 HVB

HVB

    No Life

  • Patron
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 14871 posts
  • LocationPalmer, MA

Posted 16 January 2019 - 06:24 AM

I'd just use new water but it's probably fine.

 

I would do the same.  I know Starsan is said to be good if at a certain pH, I wonder if Iodophor is the same way.


  • 0

#5 denny

denny

    Living Legend

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 8662 posts
  • LocationEugene OR

Posted 18 January 2019 - 09:50 AM

I would do the same.  I know Starsan is said to be good if at a certain pH, I wonder if Iodophor is the same way.

 

No, because it's action isnt pH dependent.  Read this...I have a more extensive pdf if anyone wants it...

 

Broad-spectrum Germicides.

The term “Broad Spectrum” when applied to a sanitizer means that it will attack a wide variety of different types of microorganisms, including gram-positive bacteria (Listeria and Staphylococcus), gram negative bacteria (E. coli and Salmonella), viruses, fungi (both yeasts and molds), as well as many parasites. Broad-spectrum germicides act on microbial membranes, cellular enzymes, DNA, and protein. Iodine-based sanitizers have been used as antimicrobial agents since the 1800s and have a broad spectrum of activity They are a powerful sanitizer in strong acidic aqueous solutions. They are generally used at 12.5 to 25 ppm available iodine, and can cause staining on some surfaces, especially plastics.

 

Acid-anionic sanitizers are surface-active sanitizers, but negatively charged. Formulations include inorganic and organic acids plus a surfactant. Carboxylic acids (fatty acids) are some times incorporated as well. They are unaffected by hard water or organic soils. The dual function of acid is that it can be used for rinsing and sanitizing in one step. These sanitizers must be used at low pH. Activity above pH 3.5–4.0 is minimal. Acidity, detergency, stability, and noncorrosiveness makes them highly effective. Acid-anionic sanitizers are broad spectrum against bacteria and viruses, but not very effective against yeasts and molds.

 

Iodophors are considered broad spectrum anti microbial vs. Star San being a being anti bacterial.  The actual label for Star San lists what it is registered to kill: E Coli and Staph A – the minimum baseline for allowing a claim of being a sanitizer with the EPA.  Iodophor has proven effectiveness against not only gram positive and negative bacteria, but yeast, mold, fungi and viruses and is also a sporicidal agent.


  • 0

#6 Zsasz

Zsasz

    Anti-Brag Queen

  • Patron
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 40141 posts
  • LocationLimbo

Posted 18 January 2019 - 09:53 AM

sounds like I should get some iodophor the next time I order supplies.


  • 0

#7 ER Pemberton

ER Pemberton

    Comptroller of Forum Content

  • Moderators
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 34228 posts

Posted 18 January 2019 - 10:22 AM

No, because it's action isnt pH dependent.  Read this...I have a more extensive pdf if anyone wants it...

 

Broad-spectrum Germicides.

The term “Broad Spectrum” when applied to a sanitizer means that it will attack a wide variety of different types of microorganisms, including gram-positive bacteria (Listeria and Staphylococcus), gram negative bacteria (E. coli and Salmonella), viruses, fungi (both yeasts and molds), as well as many parasites. Broad-spectrum germicides act on microbial membranes, cellular enzymes, DNA, and protein. Iodine-based sanitizers have been used as antimicrobial agents since the 1800s and have a broad spectrum of activity They are a powerful sanitizer in strong acidic aqueous solutions. They are generally used at 12.5 to 25 ppm available iodine, and can cause staining on some surfaces, especially plastics.

 

Acid-anionic sanitizers are surface-active sanitizers, but negatively charged. Formulations include inorganic and organic acids plus a surfactant. Carboxylic acids (fatty acids) are some times incorporated as well. They are unaffected by hard water or organic soils. The dual function of acid is that it can be used for rinsing and sanitizing in one step. These sanitizers must be used at low pH. Activity above pH 3.5–4.0 is minimal. Acidity, detergency, stability, and noncorrosiveness makes them highly effective. Acid-anionic sanitizers are broad spectrum against bacteria and viruses, but not very effective against yeasts and molds.

 

Iodophors are considered broad spectrum anti microbial vs. Star San being a being anti bacterial.  The actual label for Star San lists what it is registered to kill: E Coli and Staph A – the minimum baseline for allowing a claim of being a sanitizer with the EPA.  Iodophor has proven effectiveness against not only gram positive and negative bacteria, but yeast, mold, fungi and viruses and is also a sporicidal agent.

Thanks for that Denny.  That last part was exactly how it was described to me... especially the "yeast, mold and fungi" part.  Again, my experience with Starsan seemed very good to me.  But if Iodophor has a wider range of sanitizing power that seems like a winner to me.  Some pros and cons:  Starsan seems odorless and flavorless and it seems to "keep" so you can fill a spray bottle, etc. and use it when you need to.  But the foaming can be a PITA and we now see that its sanitizing power has limitations.  Iodophor appears to sanitize a wider range of cooties and there is no foaming,  I think it may be cheaper as well.  But it's already staining some buckets of mine and although the packaging says it's odorless and tasteless, we all know that's not true.  You can smell it in its diluted form and some brewers are saying that they can even pick up the flavor/smell of iodophor in their beers... which I don't think will be a problem for me.  



#8 denny

denny

    Living Legend

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 8662 posts
  • LocationEugene OR

Posted 18 January 2019 - 11:38 AM

sounds like I should get some iodophor the next time I order supplies.

 

I use it 90% of the time these days


  • 0

#9 Zsasz

Zsasz

    Anti-Brag Queen

  • Patron
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 40141 posts
  • LocationLimbo

Posted 18 January 2019 - 12:00 PM

I use it 90% of the time these days

 

I have a big jug of starsan so I probably wouldn't do that but I might consider doing an occasional sanitizing round with the iodophor just to keep bugs at bay.


  • 0

#10 ER Pemberton

ER Pemberton

    Comptroller of Forum Content

  • Moderators
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 34228 posts

Posted 13 July 2019 - 07:58 AM

So one thing I notice about using iodophor (aside from the staining) is that some of my equipment has a hazy, white film on it presumably from the Oxi I use as a cleanser.  I assume that following that up with Starsan neutralizes it because things like my SS chiller, strainer, oxygenation tool would be shiny and bright after coming out of the Starsan solution.  Not so much with the iodophor.  This might be a good reason to switch off between the two sanitizers either every other batch or every other bottle of sanitizer.  



#11 Bklmt2000

Bklmt2000

    Five Way Expert

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 9721 posts
  • LocationCincinnati, OH

Posted 13 July 2019 - 08:04 AM

Since Starsan has a healthy amount of phosphoric acid in it, it will definitely help get rid of said haze from the Oxiclean.

 

Iodine won't make much (if any) of a dent in removing said haze, so IMO, switching b/w the 2 sanitizers as you said, or doing a periodic Starsan soak and rinse, would be good.


  • 0

#12 ER Pemberton

ER Pemberton

    Comptroller of Forum Content

  • Moderators
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 34228 posts

Posted 13 July 2019 - 08:16 AM

Since Starsan has a healthy amount of phosphoric acid in it, it will definitely help get rid of said haze from the Oxiclean.

 

Iodine won't make much (if any) of a dent in removing said haze, so IMO, switching b/w the 2 sanitizers as you said, or doing a periodic Starsan soak and rinse, would be good.

IIRC, someone mentioned that most cleansers (PBW, B-Brite, Oxi) are alkaline and then you have the acidic makeup of Starsan working in conjunction with that.  I don't know the pH of Iodophor solution but I could check it.  I doubt it's around 3 like Starsan would be.  



#13 neddles

neddles

    No Life

  • Patron
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 12203 posts

Posted 13 July 2019 - 09:05 AM

Are you guys not rinsing off the oxiclean first?
  • 0

#14 ER Pemberton

ER Pemberton

    Comptroller of Forum Content

  • Moderators
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 34228 posts

Posted 13 July 2019 - 09:36 AM

Are you guys not rinsing off the oxiclean first?

I rinse it.  It's just that I'm noticing this film (it's very minor but it's new) now that I got away from Starsan for the first time in 15 years or whatever.  I can clean it off and I'm not worried about it but it's just a new thing I noticed.  I'll probably order (or pick up) Starsan again soon and use it on an upcoming batch.  



#15 zymot

zymot

    Comptroller of Small Amounts of Money

  • Patron
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 22392 posts
  • LocationMortville

Posted 13 July 2019 - 10:27 AM

I have had a couple bad experiences with OxyClean. I keep it in the laundry room. The savings over PBW is not worth the hassle. I know there are newer options to PBW, I will check them out when my inventory of PBW is low.

 

For a blast of sanitizer, I am not afraid to use bleach. If you want something free of microscopic critters, bleach is excellent choice. The contact time is seconds. I doubt you will every under-contact time bleach. I do not soak stuff in bleach, especially stainless steel. True, you have to rinse it with plenty of water. But when it is rinsed clean, the only microbes you need to worry about are what your tap water brings and new ones that fall out of the sky and land on your equipment. Iodophor or StarSan is fine for those.

 

Overkill? You could say literally overkill. Suspenders and Belt. The process is easy and cheap enough. 

 

As Denny points out Iodophor kills a wider range of little nasty things. The way I use the bleach blast, rinse, sanitizer combo the sanitizer gets more than enough contact time.


  • 0

#16 neddles

neddles

    No Life

  • Patron
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 12203 posts

Posted 13 July 2019 - 12:27 PM

I have had a couple bad experiences with OxyClean. I keep it in the laundry room. The savings over PBW is not worth the hassle. I know there are newer options to PBW, I will check them out when my inventory of PBW is low.

For a blast of sanitizer, I am not afraid to use bleach. If you want something free of microscopic critters, bleach is excellent choice. The contact time is seconds. I doubt you will every under-contact time bleach. I do not soak stuff in bleach, especially stainless steel. True, you have to rinse it with plenty of water. But when it is rinsed clean, the only microbes you need to worry about are what your tap water brings and new ones that fall out of the sky and land on your equipment. Iodophor or StarSan is fine for those.

Overkill? You could say literally overkill. Suspenders and Belt. The process is easy and cheap enough.

As Denny points out Iodophor kills a wider range of little nasty things. The way I use the bleach blast, rinse, sanitizer combo the sanitizer gets more than enough contact time.


I like to hit my glass carboys with bleach after every couple of brews go through them.
  • 0

#17 denny

denny

    Living Legend

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 8662 posts
  • LocationEugene OR

Posted 13 July 2019 - 01:43 PM

So one thing I notice about using iodophor (aside from the staining) is that some of my equipment has a hazy, white film on it presumably from the Oxi I use as a cleanser.  I assume that following that up with Starsan neutralizes it because things like my SS chiller, strainer, oxygenation tool would be shiny and bright after coming out of the Starsan solution.  Not so much with the iodophor.  This might be a good reason to switch off between the two sanitizers either every other batch or every other bottle of sanitizer.  

 

Man, I have never seen that.


I have had a couple bad experiences with OxyClean. I keep it in the laundry room. The savings over PBW is not worth the hassle. I know there are newer options to PBW, I will check them out when my inventory of PBW is low.

 

For a blast of sanitizer, I am not afraid to use bleach. If you want something free of microscopic critters, bleach is excellent choice. The contact time is seconds. I doubt you will every under-contact time bleach. I do not soak stuff in bleach, especially stainless steel. True, you have to rinse it with plenty of water. But when it is rinsed clean, the only microbes you need to worry about are what your tap water brings and new ones that fall out of the sky and land on your equipment. Iodophor or StarSan is fine for those.

 

Overkill? You could say literally overkill. Suspenders and Belt. The process is easy and cheap enough. 

 

As Denny points out Iodophor kills a wider range of little nasty things. The way I use the bleach blast, rinse, sanitizer combo the sanitizer gets more than enough contact time.

 

Try Craftmeister alkaline cleaner and you'll never use Oxi or PBW again.


  • 0

#18 miccullen

miccullen

    Cheap Blue Meanie

  • Patron
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 62995 posts
  • LocationSpokane, WA

Posted 13 July 2019 - 02:16 PM

I've seen the haze from oxy type cleaners, I have quite had water like Pemberton.


  • 0

#19 zymot

zymot

    Comptroller of Small Amounts of Money

  • Patron
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 22392 posts
  • LocationMortville

Posted 13 July 2019 - 02:36 PM


Try Craftmeister alkaline cleaner and you'll never use Oxi or PBW again.

 

That is the stuff I remember you raving about. I will give it a try.

 

From the product review page on morebeer.com  :shock: :o  :wacko: How hard is to look into your kettle before you start to fill it? Almost as bad as a diaper.

 

I'll stick with oxy-clean
Very expensive at the concentrations recommended. Be careful to ensure the powder is completely dissolved; I found a lump of this stuff at the bottom of my kettle after brewing - 70 minute boil! I hadn't realized that during cleanup after the previous batch, the cleaner had not completely been dissolved by recirculation.

 

https://www.morebeer...ewery-wash.html


  • 0

#20 denny

denny

    Living Legend

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 8662 posts
  • LocationEugene OR

Posted 13 July 2019 - 03:04 PM

That is the stuff I remember you raving about. I will give it a try.

 

From the product review page on morebeer.com  :shock: :o  :wacko: How hard is to look into your kettle before you start to fill it? Almost as bad as a diaper.

 

I'll stick with oxy-clean
Very expensive at the concentrations recommended. Be careful to ensure the powder is completely dissolved; I found a lump of this stuff at the bottom of my kettle after brewing - 70 minute boil! I hadn't realized that during cleanup after the previous batch, the cleaner had not completely been dissolved by recirculation.

 

https://www.morebeer...ewery-wash.html

 

if the guy had trouble dissolving it, it was him, not the product.  One of the coolest things about it is that it's more effective with cold water than PBW is with hot water.  I have a very small water heater in my garage, so that's a real plus for me.


  • 0


0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users