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okay I'm finally going to make a NEIPA (on purpose)


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#1 pickle_rick

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Posted 25 November 2018 - 05:40 AM

From what I've gathered:

 

  • 2-row pale or pale ale for the base
  • 10% flaked oats
  • 10% white wheat
  • 5% some kind of specialty malt (carapils and honey malt seem common)

 

  • OG typically seems to be around 1.065 or so.

 

  • a good amount of chloride (around 100-150ppm??)
  • lower sulfate (70ppm??)

 

  • almost no hops in the boil and if they are there it's pretty much flame out only
  • lots of hop stand/whirlpool hops

 

  • wyeast 1318, WL07 or one of those new VT ale yeasts that are supposed to be Conan

 

  • more hops during the tail end of fermentation
  • many, many dry hops

 

It seems like hop types are usually citra, galaxy, mosaic, el dorado, etc.  basically anything fruity.

 

 

 

so that's all pretty readily info on the intertrons.  I have a pretty good idea of what I want to do for the malt.  I make 10 gal batches.

 

X lbs CMC 2-row pale (to get me to 1.067)

2 lbs TF&S Maris Otter

2 lbs flaked oats

2 lbs white wheat

1 lbs carapils copper

 

I'll follow the general guidelines for chloride and sulfate.  Probably mash around 154F.

 

not sure on the hops yet.  I have a lot of good options.  I have a little amarillo, galaxy and mosaic I could throw in.  I have plenty of citra, simcoe, idaho gem and strata.

 

I also have other stuff like chinook, columbus and centennial that might not be as common for this style.

 

on the yeast I'm a little torn.  I could follow the advice but I'm wondering if a mix of US-05 and S-04 might work here.  drez???  I'm not sure.

 

as for hopping during fermentation I'm also a little torn.  I could certainly do it.  I'm not sure if I'd need to bag (or SS tea ball) up the hops for this.

 

so any thoughts in general for my plan?

 

if I were to put this beer to music I'm shooting for this:

 


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#2 drez77

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Posted 25 November 2018 - 06:10 AM

Flaked malts are really not needed but are not Going to detract. A mix of Two row, GP or wheat with some carafoam will get you there. At that OG I would still add a boil addition of something like Columbus at 15ish. For water a pH around 5.4 and SO4/CL around 150ppm for both. 1318 is fine and I like it better than Conan, need to start fermentation around 67-68 and rise to get the esters. All the hops you have are great, galaxy and Citra are a wonderful combo. Even a touch of mosaic for a bit of dank in the blend. I do a two stage dh but that is personal preference.

My favorite NEIPA I have done was just two row and carafoam. 5g batch had 2 pounds of carafoam. I also used the 04/05 combo.

I am sure I missed something... Still working on my first coffee :)

Edited by drez77, 25 November 2018 - 06:11 AM.

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#3 pickle_rick

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Posted 25 November 2018 - 07:51 AM

wow, that's a lot of carafoam!  I have always assumed carafoam and carapils are fairly interchangeable.  is that right?

 

I'm not dead set on oats and wheat but it kind of seemed like it was key to the style based on the reading I was doing.  I'd have to actually buy wheat as I'm all out.  I do have some GP now but I love that malt so much it might pain me to use it as a specialty malt.  I figured MO would do the job pretty well too but maybe not?

 

I only have a few ounces of galaxy left now so they can't play a huge role in this beer.  strata and idaho gem are described as fruity.  I think strata is more intense so might be the better option for a beer like this.  I was hoping maybe someone here had tried strata and could share some real world experience.


Edited by pickle_rick, 25 November 2018 - 07:51 AM.

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#4 pickle_rick

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Posted 25 November 2018 - 11:19 AM

I do have some new GP I couldn't quite fit into 2 homer buckets so it's sitting in a ziplock bag begging to be used.


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#5 pickle_rick

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Posted 26 November 2018 - 07:41 AM

So drez, did you ever finish that cup of joe? Curious if you missed anything about that recipe. I like the simplicity of it. I might use part carapils copper as well.
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#6 drez77

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Posted 26 November 2018 - 07:57 AM

I would go with all GP for the base malt but if you do not want to do that then 50/50 GP to two row would be good. I think the 2#'s of flaked and wheat are good.  I personally would up the carapils to 2# as well.

 

Water keep the pH about 5.4 I find that the happy spot for these and I would keep the SO4 and CL close to each other anywhere from 100-150ppm.

 

Columbus in the boil would be good late, maybe about 10 minutes.   That will give you some bitterness and a bit of flavor and aroma.  I would also use a bit of Columbus in the whirlpool with whatever hops you choose there, citra and mosaic are classics for this in a 1:1 ratio.  DH1 early in on fermentation, maybe day 2. 4 - 6 oz for your 10g batch would be okay and then day 4/5 hit it with a big DH as you seal that fermenter up.

 

I do a cold crash to about 40ish to help drop the hops out, others do not so that is up to you.

 

Keg and drink!


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#7 pickle_rick

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Posted 26 November 2018 - 08:08 AM

I should have bought more golden promise!

I have one sack of GP but nearly 100lbs of 2-row. The 50/50 on 2-row and GP sounds pretty good. I could easily skip the wheat since I don't currently have it in stock but then again maybe I should just buy some to also use when I make that APA with Idaho gem. I could also skip the oats if they don't really bring much to the party. I guess I don't really know what the wheat and oats do here other than increase the haze factor. By that I mean I'm not sure what they do to the final product taste wise. I've never really done a side by side comparison.

Edited by pickle_rick, 26 November 2018 - 08:09 AM.

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#8 drez77

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Posted 26 November 2018 - 08:18 AM

If it was me I would keep the wheat and skip the oats.  I find I get what I want out of these beers with base, wheat and carafoam(carapils)  There has been some work done that says a high % of oats in these beers actually aids in them clearing.  But I also say that having 100# of wheat on hand.  If I had to go out and get wheat VS going the grocery store and getting some oats I may change my mind.


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#9 neddles

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Posted 26 November 2018 - 08:35 AM

What is the latest on the oats making these particularly sensitive to oxidation/darkening? IIRC Janish did some work on that at one point.


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#10 drez77

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Posted 26 November 2018 - 08:40 AM

What is the latest on the oats making these particularly sensitive to oxidation/darkening? IIRC Janish did some work on that at one point.

It is not just the oats that do that but also the huge amount of oils in solution from the large amount of hops.  Janish does has a lot on his site on oats and the impact on these beers.  I find  you can have a beer in this style with no oats that is still very easy to oxidize.


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#11 Genesee Ted

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Posted 26 November 2018 - 03:37 PM

I am surprised to see that much carafoam drez

 

I trust your results but dang!

 

pickle rick, fermentation dry hops seem to be pretty standard for the style.  You should at least give it a shot.  IIRC, you ferment in a keg? Maybe use carboys and split them to see how you prefer to add your dry hops. 



#12 pickle_rick

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Posted 26 November 2018 - 04:43 PM

I am surprised to see that much carafoam drez

 

I trust your results but dang!

 

pickle rick, fermentation dry hops seem to be pretty standard for the style.  You should at least give it a shot.  IIRC, you ferment in a keg? Maybe use carboys and split them to see how you prefer to add your dry hops. 

 

I'm willing to give the fermentor dry hops a shot.


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#13 LeftyMPfrmDE

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Posted 26 November 2018 - 11:20 PM

I'm willing to give the fermentor dry hops a shot.


Having done a couple NEIPA's, hopping during fermentation is a big part of the style. Useally, I'll add hops when the kruesen begins to fall, useally around day 3 or 4 after pitching. I use a mesh bag, and a weight of some kind, like a sanitized camlock fitting; but I also ferment in buckets.

If you do ferment in kegs, Ive had good luck with using the mesh bag/weight method, and a flat or plyable piece of sting to go between the lid o-ring and the handle; to keep the hops above the diptube. that way you dont pick up nothing but hop sludge. I used to do this if i was dry hopping at packaging for a double ipa or similar style.
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#14 LeftyMPfrmDE

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Posted 27 November 2018 - 04:05 AM

that way you dont pick up nothing but hop sludge.



..that should read to avoid picking up hop sludge ☺
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#15 pickle_rick

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Posted 27 November 2018 - 08:42 AM

I ferment in a half barrel keg. If it fits, I have a tea ball that is slightly larger than a fist I could use.
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#16 drez77

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Posted 27 November 2018 - 08:43 AM

I ferment in a half barrel keg. If it fits, I have a tea ball that is slightly larger than a fist I could use.

How many oz will that hold?  This is a NE IPA you are going to have to be DHing with a LOT of hops!!  I use 8oz of hops for my NEAPA on a 5G batch.


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#17 pickle_rick

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Posted 27 November 2018 - 09:23 AM

How many oz will that hold? This is a NE IPA you are going to have to be DHing with a LOT of hops!! I use 8oz of hops for my NEAPA on a 5G batch.


I was planning on doing one dry hop in the fermenter and the rest in my servings kegs (usually this is my only dry hop). Because of this I figured the fermenter dry hop could be something like 4 oz since I was going to nail the beer with hops again in the serving kegs.
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#18 drez77

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Posted 27 November 2018 - 09:30 AM

I was planning on doing one dry hop in the fermenter and the rest in my servings kegs (usually this is my only dry hop). Because of this I figured the fermenter dry hop could be something like 4 oz since I was going to nail the beer with hops again in the serving kegs.

I will be honest, 4 oz seems low for 10g but that is me.  I would think at least 8 oz for the first dry hop and then another 4-5 in each keg.


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#19 Genesee Ted

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Posted 27 November 2018 - 10:05 AM

Between the two WP and two dry hops additions, I’m between 4-5 lbs per barrel for one I make at work.

#20 drez77

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Posted 27 November 2018 - 10:20 AM

Between the two WP and two dry hops additions, I’m between 4-5 lbs per barrel for one I make at work.

So roughly 2.5oz/g

 

Out of pure cursorily, are your 2 DH additions equal size?


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