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Buying and selling a car

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#41 maddog

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Posted 11 September 2018 - 12:44 PM

.... if someone doesn't give me a price when I ask for a price, even if it's something I need to haggle on, I don't bother calling back.

 

This


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#42 Stains_not_here_man

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Posted 11 September 2018 - 12:46 PM

You understand the irony here, right? They do that BECAUSE they are concerned people will take a written quote and just shop it around.
 

 

Yeah, but I guess I don't have much sympathy.  Again, if we were talking about some product that required the dealer to DO something, like installing a furnace, landscaping work, whatever - something that is "custom" and requires measurements, a varying amount of labor, etc, that's one thing.   That makes a lot more sense to me as something you'd get a "quote" for.  A car isn't that.  Every 2018 Toyota Corolla with X options and Y color is the same as every other 2018 Toyota Corolla with X options and Y color.  They literally build them on an assembly line!

 

The car salesman people have convinced us they're providing some valuable service, and in the past they may have been, but that's the past now.  When I can go on to a website like www.toyota.com and literally design the exact vehicle I want, what the hell do I need the dealer for?  What service is he providing by giving me some "special" quote for what is essentially a cookie-cutter product?  There are some car companies now where you don't even need to talk to the dealer.  You just pick out options, pick which dealer to ship it to, and bring a check on delivery day.   IMO that is how it should always work.

 

The very fact that X car with Y options just doesn't always have Z price is a little ridiculous in the first place.  


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#43 maddog

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Posted 11 September 2018 - 12:49 PM

I understand why dealers don't like to negotiate by email, because it limits the profit they'll make. They'll still make profit, though, or they'll not sell the car. I don't prefer to do business the way they want to do it. 


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#44 Stains_not_here_man

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Posted 11 September 2018 - 12:54 PM

Damn, the more I think about it.... why the hell do we even have car salesmen? :P  What value are they adding to the transaction?  The whole system seems really.... outdated, I guess.


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#45 BrewerGeorge

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Posted 11 September 2018 - 01:33 PM

I'm with stain on this one.  Car sales is not a service, it is a retail purchase.



#46 dagomike

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Posted 11 September 2018 - 01:43 PM

That said, if someone doesn't give me a price when I ask for a price, even if it's something I need to haggle on, I don't bother calling back.

 

 

Yup. I'm sure they'll be back. If not, whatever. It's not my local dealership, which is where I prefer to do business.


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#47 dagomike

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Posted 11 September 2018 - 01:47 PM

I got two formal quotes and they were within $25 of each other. $1600 under the website price. I'll do some out of market research, but I'm guessing that's about the price. We'll see if anyone comes in lower. Then I need to figure out what to do with the old car.


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#48 deejaydan

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Posted 11 September 2018 - 03:41 PM

If you are looking New, I'd try to find someone that works in the auto industry to get some ideas of what the supplier discounts currently are.  Maybe I could have gotten a better deal, maybe not.

 

I'm thinking I might need to change up my car in the next year or 2.. and I'm kind of dreading it, but I'm at 192,000 miles, and it won't last forever.


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#49 djinkc

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Posted 11 September 2018 - 04:11 PM

Damn, the more I think about it.... why the hell do we even have car salesmen? :P  What value are they adding to the transaction?  The whole system seems really.... outdated, I guess.

 

I have to agree with Stain.  Their only purpose seems to be charging you more than you should pay so they make a living.  There was a time that they could be actually helpful in matching a car with the customer.  That time is long gone.  Needless middleman.

My last dealership purchase was a PIA.  Walked out, got called back that we can make a deal.  Royals playoff game in progress.  Dickhead salesman was exchanging cash with other employees for whatever reason when I went to look for him.  Finally bought the car for what I wanted for a price and trade.

Feckers did not have a clear title - semi major PIA to have them fix it.  Feck Shawnee Mission Kia.

 

Next time I may just do Carmax and pay a little premium for my time and not dealing with assholes.


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#50 Trub L

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Posted 12 September 2018 - 06:03 AM

Yeah, but I guess I don't have much sympathy. Again, if we were talking about some product that required the dealer to DO something, like installing a furnace, landscaping work, whatever - something that is "custom" and requires measurements, a varying amount of labor, etc, that's one thing. That makes a lot more sense to me as something you'd get a "quote" for. A car isn't that. Every 2018 Toyota Corolla with X options and Y color is the same as every other 2018 Toyota Corolla with X options and Y color. They literally build them on an assembly line!

The car salesman people have convinced us they're providing some valuable service, and in the past they may have been, but that's the past now. When I can go on to a website like www.toyota.com and literally design the exact vehicle I want, what the hell do I need the dealer for? What service is he providing by giving me some "special" quote for what is essentially a cookie-cutter product? There are some car companies now where you don't even need to talk to the dealer. You just pick out options, pick which dealer to ship it to, and bring a check on delivery day. IMO that is how it should always work.

The very fact that X car with Y options just doesn't always have Z price is a little ridiculous in the first place.

You can always go to the Toyota site, "design" your car, and pick it up for that price. Any dealer would be happy to have that business lol.

Edited by D Fender, 12 September 2018 - 06:08 AM.

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#51 Trub L

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Posted 12 September 2018 - 06:06 AM

Damn, the more I think about it.... why the hell do we even have car salesmen? :P What value are they adding to the transaction? The whole system seems really.... outdated, I guess.


You could say the same of any retail business really. A few times, I've gone to the local appliance repair shop to see if they had a washer part or something that I needed to get things working again. The answer has invariably become "we don't have it here, but we can order it and have it here in 3 days." Hey guy... So can I, and it won't come with the 500% markup. Your entire value proposition is that you have what I need right now rather than waiting for something to ship.
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#52 Stains_not_here_man

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Posted 12 September 2018 - 06:11 AM

You could say the same of any retail business really. A few times, I've gone to the local appliance repair shop to see if they had a washer part or something that I needed to get things working again. The answer has invariably become "we don't have it here, but we can order it and have it here in 3 days." Hey guy... So can I, and it won't come with the 500% markup. Your entire value proposition is that you have what I need right now rather than waiting for something to ship.


That's not quite the same. The car dealer situation is like calling 5 different Sears stores in nearby towns and trying to get different quotes on the exact same model of dishwasher. They'll all tell you the same price. Maybe you can find it 10 bucks cheaper at Lowe's or something but even in those cases a lot of places will price match.

I'm not sure why cars should be an exception to this.

I'll reiterate. The very fact that X car with Y options just doesn't always have Z price is a little ridiculous in the first place.
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#53 Stains_not_here_man

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Posted 12 September 2018 - 06:17 AM


Here's an example of this. I just looked up the price of a playstation 4 (first thing I thought of).

Kohl's: 299.99
Best buy: 299.99
Target: 299.99
Walmart: 299.99

This is for a specific base model. It could be said that 299.99 is the actual (not "suggested") retail price of a ps4 base model with specific, standard, known options.

Why should a specific model of car with a set of standard, specific, known options be any different? Why shouldn't it have a predictable, known, set retail price?
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#54 BrewerGeorge

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Posted 12 September 2018 - 06:24 AM

Because something that costs half a years pay is worth negotiating over.

#55 Stains_not_here_man

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Posted 12 September 2018 - 06:41 AM

Because something that costs half a years pay is worth negotiating over.


Maybe so, maybe not. I get the point but that seems like a distinction that is not terribly relevant. It's still a known quantity... An assembly line commodity product.

Edited by the_stain, 12 September 2018 - 06:42 AM.

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#56 Stains_not_here_man

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Posted 12 September 2018 - 06:43 AM

Competition between different makers is one thing... competition between what are essentially "factory outlets" for the same factory just seems odd.
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#57 Dave McG

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Posted 12 September 2018 - 06:52 AM

I don't do it with often, but I have negotiated at stores before on medium priced items. I have gotten a bit off on a refrigerator at Sears, our furniture, our mattress, and on a rebuilt rack &pinion unit for a car I used to have. They guy told me the price, I choked and told him I'll be getting one from a boneyard instead. He dropped the price like a rock.
I think anything with commissioned salespeople warrants a touch of negotiations.
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#58 Stains_not_here_man

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Posted 12 September 2018 - 06:53 AM

It seems to me like that whole structure must tend, on average, to benefit the seller more than the consumer.
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#59 Dave McG

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Posted 12 September 2018 - 07:04 AM

It seems to me like that whole structure must tend, on average, to benefit the seller more than the consumer.

Well, the free market tends to push back on that, and sellers then try to confuse things with BS incentives and "special" pricing. Then consumers use the internet to shop around -that's the free market reacting. Then the sellers get goofy with financing or rebates. It's a cat and mouse game. Sellers are more invested, because that's their livelihood. Consumers buy maybe three cars a decade, where a car salesman is trying to do that every day.
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#60 Stains_not_here_man

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Posted 12 September 2018 - 07:13 AM

True. It just seems like there's an imbalance of information to some extent. Hard for a consumer to know if they're getting the best price. The internet is changing this, though, and i'm glad.
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