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Buying and selling a car

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#21 Stains_not_here_man

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Posted 11 September 2018 - 07:43 AM

Also, I tend to agree with Aspen on this one; I feel like the market is competitive enough now that the price posted on a dealer's website is very close to the best they'll do.


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#22 BrewerGeorge

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Posted 11 September 2018 - 07:46 AM

Also, I tend to agree with Aspen on this one; I feel like the market is competitive enough now that the price posted on a dealer's website is very close to the best they'll do.

No, it's not. That's what they want you to think.

#23 Stains_not_here_man

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Posted 11 September 2018 - 07:51 AM

No, it's not. That's what they want you to think.

 

Maybe.   I think there's more wiggle room on new vs. used, and I always buy used.


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#24 maddog

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Posted 11 September 2018 - 07:53 AM

No, it's not. That's what they want you to think.

 

I bought a new (to me) truck on Saturday. The sale price was 7% lower than the list price. I don't know if it was a great price, although it was one I was willing to pay. It was certainly better than what I'd have received if I didn't negotiate. The markup on new cars is much larger. 


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#25 BrewerGeorge

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Posted 11 September 2018 - 07:56 AM

Maybe. I think there's more wiggle room on new vs. used, and I always buy used.

Oh, used is a totally different negotiation. Much less back and forth. I buy a used car like glassonion sells one. Make a realistic offer, buy if they accept, walk if they don't.

#26 Stains_not_here_man

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Posted 11 September 2018 - 07:57 AM

makes sense.


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#27 Dave McG

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Posted 11 September 2018 - 07:59 AM

Also, I tend to agree with Aspen on this one; I feel like the market is competitive enough now that the price posted on a dealer's website is very close to the best they'll do.

No. as George mentioned, they want you to feel that way. We bought a Ford Edge around Memorial Day. The dealer tried confusing us with different financing and incentive plans. "This rate is only available with that rebate" kind of crap. I told him to not mention the monthly cost again, I was working the total cost only, taxes & fees included. When I told him I didn't like his price, he tried to switch to selling me an Escape. I said no, and gave him a price $2700 less than he wanted. Within a minute his manager came over and offered to meet in the middle. I said no, he came down $1700, and I bought the car with zero percent over five years.

The pretend that you can't negotiate, but don't be fooled.
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#28 Stains_not_here_man

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Posted 11 September 2018 - 07:59 AM

I'm not saying you can't, but I don't think it's what it used to be.


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#29 maddog

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Posted 11 September 2018 - 08:01 AM

Oh, and car dealerships are sad, sad places. I think I'd rather hang out it the methadone clinic. 

 

As I was waiting to arrange payment with the finance folks (who seemed to think they had some leverage they didn't really have, but that's another story), another customer asked me what I was doing there. He shared with me he was trying to buy a raptor, but that it was dependent on whether he could qualify for an 84 month loan.

 

 

Don't be that guy.


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#30 Trub L

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Posted 11 September 2018 - 08:02 AM

I'd agree with a quote for a specific vehicle, which is what I think you're saying. That's shady.

These guys know everyone's costs and margins, so if they throw a fit over a counter/match they're putting on a show.

Yeah, I think just making it clear that you know the other options and have done your research is sufficient.
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#31 Dave McG

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Posted 11 September 2018 - 08:04 AM

I'm not saying you can't, but I don't think it's what it used to be.

I think it's exactly the way it used to be, but they put up a facade to hide that fact.
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#32 maddog

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Posted 11 September 2018 - 08:10 AM

No. as George mentioned, they want you to feel that way. We bought a Ford Edge around Memorial Day. The dealer tried confusing us with different financing and incentive plans. "This rate is only available with that rebate" kind of crap. I told him to not mention the monthly cost again, I was working the total cost only, taxes & fees included. When I told him I didn't like his price, he tried to switch to selling me an Escape. I said no, and gave him a price $2700 less than he wanted. Within a minute his manager came over and offered to meet in the middle. I said no, he came down $1700, and I bought the car with zero percent over five years.

The pretend that you can't negotiate, but don't be fooled.

 

Similar experience, even for a used car. I proposed an out-the-door offer that they countered with one that they claimed 'split the difference' but omitted the handling charge, claiming it was their final price. I told them I'd pay that price, but only if they offered service that exceeded the handling charge they had snuck back into the total cost. The handling charge was $299. They committed to doing three oil changes/tire changes and installing an integrated brake controller.

 

They also seemed very annoyed when I paid cash and declined the warranty. ;)


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#33 Dave McG

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Posted 11 September 2018 - 08:21 AM

They also seemed very annoyed when I paid cash and declined the warranty. ;)

I would never tell them I'm paying cash. They make background money on the financing. They can come down a bit more when they sell you a loan product. If you have cash, take the financing that gets the best incentives, bargain down even lower, then pay it off on your first payment.
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#34 maddog

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Posted 11 September 2018 - 08:49 AM

I would never tell them I'm paying cash. They make background money on the financing. They can come down a bit more when they sell you a loan product. If you have cash, take the financing that gets the best incentives, bargain down even lower, then pay it off on your first payment.

 

It was a used car, so there weren't factory incentives. I negotiated with them not knowing if I would pay cash or finance.

 

I didn't finalize things until I got to the financing office. I said that I had been approved for funding and would consider financing through the dealer if they could beat the rate of my independent financing. All this was true. I had been approved for a very low interest loan that I didn't think they could beat. I would have financed 25% of the cost of the vehicle if they could have beat that rate. They couldn't. I paid cash. Well, in reality, I put the maximum they would allow on my rewards card (which I will pay off immediately), and paid the rest with a cashier's check.

 

They weren't very friendly after I told them that's what the arrangements would be. ;)

 

Could I have perhaps gotten a slightly lower price telling them in advance I would finance? Maybe, but I suspect the difference would have been relatively small on a used vehicle.


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#35 BrewerGeorge

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Posted 11 September 2018 - 11:48 AM

... then pay it off on your first payment.

They're starting to work around that. The finance option I had them work on the Maxima had about a $300 'front load' built in. So they can still say there is no penalty for early repayment, but the financed principle was $3700 instead of the $3400 negotiated. That was to the bank, not the dealer, BTW.

I declined, of course.

#36 Car ChuckRam

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Posted 11 September 2018 - 12:00 PM

I tried straight cash money with the Fiesta. As in a horse choker wad of $100 bills. Didn’t work. I took the zero percent, made 2 payments to clear the front load to Ford Finance that George mentioned, then paid it off.

My wife is a motherfecker when it comes to negotiating though. She got 4 oil changes, and a Outback Steak House gift card.

Edited by Car ChuckRam, 11 September 2018 - 12:01 PM.

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#37 dagomike

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Posted 11 September 2018 - 12:22 PM

I sent out a quote request and instantly got a bunch of calls and email. I responded asking for price w/ taxes and fee for a specific model and no color preference. One is insisting I come in and test drive to make sure it's what I want before sending me pricing. :rolleyes:  


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#38 Stains_not_here_man

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Posted 11 September 2018 - 12:26 PM

I sent out a quote request and instantly got a bunch of calls and email. I responded asking for price w/ taxes and fee for a specific model and no color preference. One is insisting I come in and test drive to make sure it's what I want before sending me pricing. :rolleyes:  

 

Maybe I'm an asshole but this is part of why I think I wouldn't have a problem using one dealer's price against another.  If you're going to make me jump through a bunch of hoops and give me the hard sell just to give me a quote, you can suck it.


I mean, it's not like you're installing an HVAC system where you need to take measurements and shit.  It's a car.  It's made to specs in a factory and you have 20 of them sitting on the lot.


Edited by the_stain, 11 September 2018 - 12:25 PM.

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#39 maddog

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Posted 11 September 2018 - 12:35 PM

I sent out a quote request and instantly got a bunch of calls and email. I responded asking for price w/ taxes and fee for a specific model and no color preference. One is insisting I come in and test drive to make sure it's what I want before sending me pricing. :rolleyes:  

 

You already drove it, right? 


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#40 Trub L

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Posted 11 September 2018 - 12:41 PM

Maybe I'm an asshole but this is part of why I think I wouldn't have a problem using one dealer's price against another. If you're going to make me jump through a bunch of hoops and give me the hard sell just to give me a quote, you can suck it.

I mean, it's not like you're installing an HVAC system where you need to take measurements and shit. It's a car. It's made to specs in a factory and you have 20 of them sitting on the lot.


You understand the irony here, right? They do that BECAUSE they are concerned people will take a written quote and just shop it around.

That said, if someone doesn't give me a price when I ask for a price, even if it's something I need to haggle on, I don't bother calling back.
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