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Okay, lesson learned...


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#1 ER Pemberton

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Posted 05 July 2018 - 10:27 AM

... and probably should have been learned a long time ago.  The two beers that I made with the 940 that sat for 5-6 weeks are showing signs that the yeast wasn't healthy.  The beers are fine but they're stubborn to clear and there is just something that is not quite right.  They're not dumpers but it reminds me once again not to "save" yeast... just use it back-to-back-to-back and then get rid of it.  The helles I made with the 2124 seems okay but it also looks like it may not clear.  It's in the on-deck fridge now and will probably sit there awhile so we'll see.  Also, I made the 'vitality starter' with that one so maybe I'll catch a break.  I got out of the "yeast saving" gig a long time ago because I had issues like this and I went to a process where I reuse the yeast quickly (often the same day it's harvested or maybe 24 hours after).  These are all drinkable beers but they're not good examples.  Bayern is running now and will get used more quickly and without any real 'rests'.  Cheers.



#2 Steve Urquell

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Posted 05 July 2018 - 04:11 PM

I've pushed the limits of yeast occasionally with 2+mth old stuff. My harvests are very clean though and I've only had poor results in one batch that I know was >3mths from harvest date. That was some W34/70 on its last legs ~5th gen and tasted estery/belgiany. With my drauflassen method I'm comfortable up to 2 months.


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#3 ER Pemberton

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Posted 05 July 2018 - 05:13 PM

I've pushed the limits of yeast occasionally with 2+mth old stuff. My harvests are very clean though and I've only had poor results in one batch that I know was >3mths from harvest date. That was some W34/70 on its last legs ~5th gen and tasted estery/belgiany. With my drauflassen method I'm comfortable up to 2 months.

It seems like the beer is really stellar when the yeast are happy, fresh, active, etc.  I made the Victoria clone, a pale lager and a dark lager back-to-back-to-back and all of those were great.  Then the yeast sat and I made the dark lager and the pale lager again.  The dark lager is fine:  It's clear, clean and I would call it "good" but not as good as the earlier one.  The pale lager is the one that had diacetyl and it's stubborn to clear.  The flavor is okay but it just looks like a mess.  I have packets of 34/70 and also the Lallemand Diamond (supposedly a very similar dry yeast strain as 34/70) so I'm not going to roll the dice this way anymore... it's not worth it.  It seems like it is but it's not.  I totally hear you on the estery/belgiany/phenolic character that you can get from yeast that's overused, etc. and I truly hate that character.  <_<



#4 Steve Urquell

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Posted 05 July 2018 - 05:17 PM

Yep. Belgians suck. *ducks head*
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#5 denny

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Posted 06 July 2018 - 11:58 AM

I made my HBC beer for club night with 11th generation saved yeast.  It was a mistake....


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#6 drez77

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Posted 06 July 2018 - 12:23 PM

I made my HBC beer for club night with 11th generation saved yeast.  It was a mistake....

what was the issue or off flavor?  I always have good intentions of going several generations with yeast but then I change gears and move on to something else so I think I have only gone maybe 3-4 max.


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#7 denny

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Posted 06 July 2018 - 02:36 PM

what was the issue or off flavor?  I always have good intentions of going several generations with yeast but then I change gears and move on to something else so I think I have only gone maybe 3-4 max.

 

Very phenolic.  I simply got lazy...brewed without checking to be sure that I had better yeast on hand.  I told myself that it would be OK, but it wasn't.


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#8 pkrone

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Posted 06 July 2018 - 05:12 PM

But...  I like belgians....     and they beat Brazil today...


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#9 drez77

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Posted 06 July 2018 - 06:20 PM

But... I like belgians.... and they beat Brazil today...


But what about a phenolic Helles!?
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#10 ER Pemberton

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Posted 07 July 2018 - 10:45 AM

Very phenolic.  I simply got lazy...brewed without checking to be sure that I had better yeast on hand.  I told myself that it would be OK, but it wasn't.

Yeah, I feel like I did the same thing.  I was thinking "this is good yeast and it's made great beer so far so it should be good".  Again, these are not dumpers but they're just not my best efforts.  I'm brewing with 1056 for the 4th generation today but this yeast has not been "saved"... I just harvested it out of a Cascade Pale Ale this morning.  Still... I'm going to be more careful.



#11 pkrone

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Posted 07 July 2018 - 02:29 PM

But what about a phenolic Helles!?

 

 

 

That's not a Belgian.   That's just bad yeast.   :P


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#12 Poptop

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Posted 09 July 2018 - 11:28 AM

I had some concern on Bayern 4th I used a week ago yesterday. The Bayern was about 4 weeks old and I pitched it and got nothing for 3 days. Then it began rumbling. Fermented strong at 45F all week and I raised the temp this past Saturday to finish it off. It's still super cloudy and the krausen hasn't dropped yet. I guess I'll take a reading maybe tonight to see where I'm at and also get a taste. This "cloudy" talk you fellas are talking about has me a little concerned if this batch will clear. Game over for this pack of Bayern either way.
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#13 ER Pemberton

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Posted 09 July 2018 - 11:43 AM

I had some concern on Bayern 4th I used a week ago yesterday. The Bayern was about 4 weeks old and I pitched it and got nothing for 3 days. Then it began rumbling. Fermented strong at 45F all week and I raised the temp this past Saturday to finish it off. It's still super cloudy and the krausen hasn't dropped yet. I guess I'll take a reading maybe tonight to see where I'm at and also get a taste. This "cloudy" talk you fellas are talking about has me a little concerned if this batch will clear. Game over for this pack of Bayern either way.

I'll try to calm your fears:  The one batch I talked about where it had diacetyl and I let it warm up... I put it on tap and got it cold.  I tasted it and it was better but something was not quite right and it was also cloudy.  I hit it with gel AGAIN and tried it a day or two later and it was still a little off.  I let about a week go by and I had some last night and it was far better and it was clearer too.  My inlaws were over and my FIL asked for a glass of what I was drinking.  I was concerned he would find it bad but he drank his glass, complimented it and then asked for more.  Sometimes you just have to give it a bit of time.  Other times... it's actually bad beer.  :lol:



#14 Poptop

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Posted 09 July 2018 - 12:04 PM

Time does typically kick a potential taste mishap I agree. But after a week of cold rigorous fermenting, I can't believe this stuff is still gunky... It's just not what I've seen using this yeast so far.

Next up a Helles with two packs of 34/70.

Edited by Poptop, 09 July 2018 - 12:05 PM.

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#15 ER Pemberton

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Posted 09 July 2018 - 01:31 PM

Time does typically kick a potential taste mishap I agree. But after a week of cold rigorous fermenting, I can't believe this stuff is still gunky... It's just not what I've seen using this yeast so far.

Next up a Helles with two packs of 34/70.

Lately when I make a lager, I let it go in the fridge for 4-5 days and then take it out and leave it on the basement floor and I give it a swirl.  I might give it a swirl a few times over the next couple of days and then leave it undisturbed for the next week.  2 weeks after brewday I'll send it to a keg, chill it, gel it and force carb it and after some amount of cold time it will pour clear.  Personally I would not expect to see clear (or clearish) beer after only one week but I suppose our experiences are different.  



#16 Poptop

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Posted 09 July 2018 - 01:35 PM

Not clear after a week by any means I guess I typed that wrong. I mean by now when I know the majority of fermentation is kaput, it starts to settle. Not clear. We all know what we can expect (most of the time) :) We'll see. How bad can it be hahaha.
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#17 ER Pemberton

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Posted 09 July 2018 - 01:53 PM

Not clear after a week by any means I guess I typed that wrong. I mean by now when I know the majority of fermentation is kaput, it starts to settle. Not clear. We all know what we can expect (most of the time) :) We'll see. How bad can it be hahaha.

Yeah, I hear you.  Sometimes I get to the point where I expect to see clearish beer and it's really, really cloudy.  Or I get to the spot where I expect to see CRYSTAL clear beer and it's still cloudy... that's when I know something is up.  If tired yeast (or unhealthy yeast) is the culprit, I have no idea moving onto the next strain if that's what's necessary.  



#18 Poptop

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Posted 09 July 2018 - 02:12 PM

Absolutely. I've learned over a few attempts that if I use 029 Kolsch, I get one crack at it. I've never had good results using it twice as it seems clearing it takes for ever and not less than 2 doses of Knox AND... time.... But I'm happy with 4 uses of the Omega and I'll definitely get it again. I'm at a point I want to try the Czech's. I have grain and yeast on hand though so 34/70 it is.

Over on the Facebooks' Denny was going on that 34/70 has the ability to make great Ales at a little bit higher temps. Says it's a clean ferment. Said he prefers it over other dry ale yeasts, 05 for example. So my next batch is #99. I'm gonna make that light Helles and then use the cake for an American Strong of some design for batch 100. At least that's the plan at the moment haha
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#19 Steve Urquell

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Posted 13 July 2018 - 05:19 AM

Ken what do you put over your stored yeast? I had problems using water and started covering them in the beer from the batch. Haven't had a problem since unless using yeast that was just way too old.
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#20 drez77

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Posted 13 July 2018 - 05:38 AM

Ken what do you put over your stored yeast? I had problems using water and started covering them in the beer from the batch. Haven't had a problem since unless using yeast that was just way too old.

That is what I use when I do it.


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