41 replies to this topic

[Genesee Ted]

So my LHBC had their annual comp this last month and the judges had quite a bit of beer left over from those who didn't make it past the first round. One of the organizers had a great idea to get us at the meeting to try and guess what styles they were entered as and each table got a 6er to try. My table got second. That aside, some of the beers that were entered were really not very good. I assume all comps are different as far as the level of entries, but it has become clear to me that a lot of homebrewers mix together a few cans or a kit and think that they are going to win awards? I have made some beer in the past that didn't turn out as I had thought it would, so by no means am I perfect and I don't want to come off arrogant. But I would also assume that most people who would be attempting said kits would have some experience drinking commercially available examples of the style they are trying to brew. Are they as good as that? If not then why enter it. And here's another can of worms, but extract twang... People seem to be amazed that I knew their beer was made from extract...

[Deerslyr]

So my LHBC had their annual comp this last month and the judges had quite a bit of beer left over from those who didn't make it past the first round. One of the organizers had a great idea to get us at the meeting to try and guess what styles they were entered as and each table got a 6er to try. My table got second. That aside, some of the beers that were entered were really not very good. I assume all comps are different as far as the level of entries, but it has become clear to me that a lot of homebrewers mix together a few cans or a kit and think that they are going to win awards? I have made some beer in the past that didn't turn out as I had thought it would, so by no means am I perfect and I don't want to come off arrogant. But I would also assume that most people who would be attempting said kits would have some experience drinking commercially available examples of the style they are trying to brew. Are they as good as that? If not then why enter it. And here's another can of worms, but extract twang... People seem to be amazed that I knew their beer was made from extract...

A little smug... but you have to remember that a brewer gets accustomed to "house flavors", which will taste very foreign to you. Not everyone can, or wants to, brew AG. And extract can make perfectly great beer. One of the best beers I made was a Hefe from an extract recipe/kit from my LHBS. With all that being said... I brew AG because... well... I can! (and it's fun!)

[dagomike]

I always encourage people in our club to enter. it doesn't matter. Some people send in beer that they know isn't right but hoping to get some pointers. Ultimately though, I think brewers can have a blind spot for their beer. They drink as they think they made it, not really how it is. It's tough and that's why you ask for opinions.

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

I always encourage people in our club to enter. it doesn't matter. Some people send in beer that they know isn't right but hoping to get some pointers. Ultimately though, I think brewers can have a blind spot for their beer. They drink as they think they made it, not really how it is. It's tough and that's why you ask for opinions.

I'm pretty critical of my own stuff. Seemingly more than other people are. Maybe they are just being polite

[djinkc]

Those less than ideal beers are how you learn - very few have the innate talent to brew well from the get go. Enter them and get some feedback. I've had some of those leftovers too, some weren't very good. But that same brewer has a chance to become a lot better.... or not choose take advantage of it. Anyway, I've had a few entries that ended up in that same pile. Hopefully they were enjoyed post competition. Extract... we have a brewer in our club that can match the best with extract recipes. I've had many of his brews, not knowing whose it was - that's the way we do tastings. Only once did I tag it as extract. Lots of ways to make very good stuff.

[MAZ]

Yes, we all know excellent, award winning beers can be made with extracts. But I don't think it's a problem to point out when you can detect a beer made with extract due to "twang". You can call it house flavor, or that "homebrewed" flavor, but it's a flaw, plain and simple. For the record, I brewed with extracts for 10 years and have nothing against it.Question for DJ - does that brewer do full boils?

[boo boo]

I can only add to what dj and the others have said. I enter comps hoping to win medals,but the feedback I get when I do or don't win makes entering worthwhile to me.I feel the feedback from someone who has an experienced palate, whom I don't know,is more honest than the feedback I get from friends, who like most of my beer, and areafraid of hurting my feelings by saying negitive things about my brew.For me it is part of the way I grow as a brewer.

[Sidney Porter]

You also need to remember that you were sampling the beers that didn't make it out of the first round so they were not necessarily the best of the enteries. Depending on the number of beers the top 2 or 3 from each flight were sent to the 2nd round.If it is a paid comp I normally only enter beers that I think have a shot at placing. If it a free club only comp I will enter just about anything. I have entered beers in comps that I thought would do well and they didn't place. I have also entered beers that I thought were boarderline and they have placed. People enter beers for a number of reasons some expect them to place other looking for feedback. I also know people that enter every beer they brew. I also think that there are a lot of beers that go from fermenter to keg and are cold conditioned. They are bottled for comp and may sit for a week or 2 at room temp, small infection have a chance to grow in the warmer enviroment. Infections that they would have never seen from the cold keg.Collectively I think that comp improves the quality of the beer that you brew and if it is in a club it improves the clubs brewing skill. But I think that that you need to enter comps outside of your own club and possible outside of your region. I very rarely enter out side my region, there are 7 comps in FL ranging from 250-400 entries I pretty much focus on them. Just curious how did you do in the comp?

[BarefootBrews]

I do agree with much that has been said already. I have judged at comps and have been given beers after the competition that did not make it to further rounds. Some were very good and some were not so good. I typically enter only beers that I feel have a chance of placing, but many brewers will enter just to get feedback. With the quality of extracts today when full wort boils are used, it's nearly impossible to detect extract vs all-grain. In some cases it's easier to detect all-grain beers over extracts. There are several extract brewers in my homebrew club that nail style guidelines (and win awards) consistently.

[CoastieSteve]

I don't think you sound smug at all.

[pods8]

While I don't think a portion of folks really decide to learn about their brewing and are just throwing stuff together, there are also folks that are looking for feedback as mentioned. This isn't a rule but chances are if you spend your time on a board talking about brewing and such you probably are going to be a leg up on other folks right off the bat.

[japh]

I do agree with much that has been said already. I have judged at comps and have been given beers after the competition that did not make it to further rounds. Some were very good and some were not so good. I typically enter only beers that I feel have a chance of placing, but many brewers will enter just to get feedback. With the quality of extracts today when full wort boils are used, it's nearly impossible to detect extract vs all-grain. In some cases it's easier to detect all-grain beers over extracts. There are several extract brewers in my homebrew club that nail style guidelines (and win awards) consistently.

If you get fresh extract, and you do full boils, you'll have very good beer that's hard to impossible tell from All Grain, IMHO. OldFart did some AG vs Extract stuff over at the other board. I know that StoutFan was part of some of those.One thing that I'm thinking is that and AG brewer is also more likely to have better fermentation temp control, just because they are more likely to be more 'into' the hobby. An extract brewer with good fermentation temp control is going to make better beer then an AG brewer without.

[EWW]

This isn't a rule but chances are if you spend your time on a board talking about brewing and such you probably are going to be a leg up on other folks right off the bat.

I think there is a lot of truth to this statement. Since being active on the board my beers have improved exponentially simply due to the critical thinking I have done about my brewing process and recipe formulation.

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

I think there is a lot of truth to this statement. Since being active on the board my beers have improved exponentially simply due to the critical thinking I have done about my brewing process and recipe formulation.

I'd find it really hard to believe that my beers would have advanced to this point with out the folks around here helping out.

[Genesee Ted]

I didn't enter anyting in the comp. I have never really been interested in them until recently because people look at me like a three-headed monster when I tell them that. That is kinda why I started the thread. I am starting to feel like I should be entering beers as a simple formality of being involved in a club, but I like my beer and I assume others do as well, and that was all that really mattered to me. I didn't get into this for competing, I just liked beer and I love to cook so it all kinda fit. Perhaps I will just start entering stuff so that when people ask me how I did I can tell them. Usually I just pour someone a beer if they ask me about my brewing and they can tell for themselves how well I do as a brewer versus telling them how many pretty ribbons I have. I am also not big on BJCP, but that is another topic. I guess I come from a standpoint that is very foreign to a lot of other people (not just homebrewers). I had no idea how much people enjoy competing with each other in everything they do. Maybe I should be more competitive?

[EWW]

I am also not big on BJCP, but that is another topic. I guess I come from a standpoint that is very foreign to a lot of other people (not just homebrewers). I had no idea how much people enjoy competing with each other in everything they do. Maybe I should be more competitive?

A bit of a thread jack, but ... THIS. I pretty much only do the club only comps anymore because I think a lot (not all) of the BJCP judges are full of crap. I brew what I like and I give it to the club for feedback which I value and appreciate because I know them and their experience level ... I think only one of them is BJCP certified, but I treat all their feedback as equally valuable. I think it comes down to feedback you can trust as valid, if that is from a comp great, but that is just not for me. Yes, some HB is crap, but we have all brewed crap at one time or another, and wouldn't be where we are at if it weren't for the experience of brewing crap ... just my $.02 on this.

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

A bit of a thread jack, but ... THIS. I pretty much only do the club only comps anymore because I think a lot (not all) of the BJCP judges are full of crap. I brew what I like and I give it to the club for feedback which I value and appreciate because I know them and their experience level ... I think only one of them is BJCP certified, but I treat all their feedback as equally valuable. I think it comes down to feedback you can trust as valid, if that is from a comp great, but that is just not for me. Yes, some HB is crap, but we have all brewed crap at one time or another, and wouldn't be where we are at if it weren't for the experience of brewing crap ... just my $.02 on this.

Most people are full of it. It's true. This doesn't just apply to judging beers.

[Big Nake]

We were just having this conversation at a local homebrew gathering. I have swapped beers with a number of other brewers from across the country and I have tasted things you can't imagine. I'm serious... some of these people will say, "Dude... you gotta taste my blonde ale!". Okay... it arrives and it's dark brown and smells & tastes like hairspray. I think that a lot of homebrewers think their beer is the bomb because they made it and it looks like beer. Not good.

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

We were just having this conversation at a local homebrew gathering. I have swapped beers with a number of other brewers from across the country and I have tasted things you can't imagine. I'm serious... some of these people will say, "Dude... you gotta taste my blonde ale!". Okay... it arrives and it's dark brown and smells & tastes like hairspray. I think that a lot of homebrewers think their beer is the bomb because they made it and it looks like beer. Not good.

What would cause that? Soap residue somewhere?

[Jimvy]

You've got all different levels of skill in folks entering competitions....from brand new brewer to decades of experience, from extract to all grain, and from technical to "relax and have a homebrew." Some folks certainly fit your mold - those that enter for the ribbons, but there's a significant portion of folks that enter their beers for feedback, or even those that know something is off or not quite right and want an experienced judge to try to help them. A number of folks mentioned that they brew what they want, and this is really the joy of homebrewing for me. Not everything fits in a BJCP category, but I know a lot of folks that go ahead and try to force fit stuff to support the competition/club more than really thinking they are going to win something. Regarding judges, well, I think you have to take it with a grain of salt. There are a lot of times I do not agree with other judges, even those on a National level. Heck, I still bitch about our proctor judges (national level) when we took the BJCP exam because they gave Salvator an average of 34 (I gave it a 42).