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#1 Hines

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Posted 22 January 2018 - 09:09 AM

Team (yes, that's what i'm calling you guys in this thread),

 

It's that time of year when I promise to brew more.  I typically knock out two brews early in the year, then not brew any more until the next year (or longer).  I've brewed off and on since around 2004ish.  I've never really thought many of my beers were that great.  I've bottled & I've kegged (which is more of nightmare for me than anything else).   I always seem to get an off flavor.  This has happened no matter where I lived so I can't blame the water, it has to be the process.

 

The plan this year is to go way back and start with the simplest of beers, then work back up to all grain lagers.   I'll likely detail out my planned process step by step.  I hope that some of you don't mind reading over it and throwing some pointers my way.  If I don't type out a step, that means it is not taking place.   I've been reading old FAQs and newer forum threads, as BJ, Stain, and some others that have got back into it stated that some perceived "rules" are no longer considered truths.  

 

My brewing goals are simple, produce some clean beers for my personal consumption.  Not looking to create awesome homemade recipes, just going to try and hammer out some kits from reputable online sellers  (closest homebrew store for me is over an hour away and I really don't know much about them, so i can't vouch for freshness).

 

In my next post i'll list my ward results and the first (and maybe second) recipe kit that I plan on using.  

 

Again, I appreciate any feedback you guys give (along with the good natured ribbing....)



#2 Hines

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Posted 22 January 2018 - 09:14 AM

pH 7.5

Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) Est, ppm 21

Electrical Conductivity, mmho/cm 0.04

Cations / Anions, me/L 0.4 / 0.3

 

ppm

Sodium, Na 6

Potassium, K 1

Calcium, Ca 1

Magnesium, Mg < 1

Total Hardness, CaCO3 3

Nitrate, NO3-N 0.2 (SAFE)

Sulfate, SO4-S 1

Chloride, Cl 2

Carbonate, CO3 < 1.0

Bicarbonate, HCO3 7

Total Alkalinity, CaCO3 6

Fluoride, F 0.06

Total Iron, Fe < 0.01

"<" - Not Detected / Below Detection Limit



#3 HVB

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Posted 22 January 2018 - 09:24 AM

Your water is very neutral and would be great for lagers.  You can brew anything you want with that water.  I am not sure if water additions make much difference with extract or not.  I would assume that if you are doing an IPA/APA you may want to hit your kettle with some gypsum to help the hops.

 

Once you come back to all grain I would look into brew in a bag.  It really makes things much simpler IMO.



#4 Big Nake

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Posted 22 January 2018 - 09:25 AM

You basically have distilled water there (or maybe RO). Your sulfate is expressed as SO4-S so you multiply it by 3 so your sulfate is a whopping THREE! If you don't already have them you should have calcium chloride and calcium sulfate in your arsenal along with lactic acid for lowering the pH. If you need additional information on how the CaCl and CaSO4 impact your beer, just ask. Your water (as is) would require a bit of both but it's very conducive to making soft lagers like helles, festbier, dunkel, Vienna, etc. But yeast like a bit of calcium and having only 1ppm of Ca is going to require an adjustment. But it's much easier to ADD things to water than it is to remove it so you have very, very, very good brewing water.

#5 Bklmt2000

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Posted 22 January 2018 - 09:29 AM

Hines, I see in the OP that you want to work up to all-grain lagers.

 

Are you looking to start back with extract-based kits, and wait on all-grain until later, or are you looking to start with all-grain ale kits first, then move into all-grain lagers?



#6 Hines

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Posted 22 January 2018 - 09:44 AM

Thanks guys, i do still have some notes from when I posted my results last year.  I bought all of the suggested "additives."

 

Bklmt2000, i'm going to start with the kit below.  With this first brew, my goal is to hit the OG.   I've never bought from ritebrew before, so i'm not certain if there are more details than what is listed on the for sale page.   If I hit my numbers, i'll likely jump back in to the all grain brews.  Likely another low IBU brew.

 

 

http://www.ritebrew....ct-p/851054.htm

 

Essentially a light American lager brewed with an ale yeast. Corn syrup solids are used to lighten the color and body of the beer. Updated 11/21/2013 - Hops have been reduced for a less bitter beer.

  • OG: 1.043
  • Color: 3 SRM
  • IBU: 10 - ABV: 4.6%
  • Bottle Caps and Priming Sugar not included

 

Brew Schedule 4lbs Pilsen DME     60 minute boil 1lb Brewers Crystals - Corn Syrup solids     60 minute boil 1oz Liberty hops     30 minute boil Ale Yeast     Ferment at 60-68F

 

Essentially a light American lager brewed with an ale yeast. Corn syrup solids are used to lighten the color and body of the beer. Updated 11/21/2013 - Hops have been reduced for a less bitter beer.

  • OG: 1.043
  • Color: 3 SRM
  • IBU: 10 - ABV: 4.6%
  • Bottle Caps and Priming Sugar not included

 

Brew Schedule 4lbs Pilsen DME     60 minute boil 1lb Brewers Crystals - Corn Syrup solids     60 minute boil 1oz Liberty hops     30 minute boil Ale Yeast     Ferment at 60-68F

 



#7 Bklmt2000

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Posted 22 January 2018 - 09:54 AM

Understood.  I think you'll do fine with the kit you mentioned above.

 

Are you planning on fermenting in buckets, carboys, or something else?  And if in buckets, will you be using the same buckets as in the past, or will you be using new buckets?

 

At the same time, I'd also give your packaging setup (whether bottling or kegging) a good lookover and cleanup, as I suspect (based on the OP) that the packaging side of things may be another source of off-flavors.

 

Not trying to pepper you with questions, just trying to get an idea of your process, so we can help you get rid of the off-flavors you've dealt with.



#8 positiveContact

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Posted 22 January 2018 - 10:07 AM

what is the off flavor you  noticed in the past?



#9 Hines

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Posted 22 January 2018 - 10:12 AM

what is the off flavor you  noticed in the past?

 

Drze says he didn't taste it, but I seem to taste off flavors that are hard to describe.  I'll pop a bottle tonight and try to describe it as i'm drinking it.

 

Peppering with questions is fine.   I'll likely bottle.   I usually soak my bottles in StarSan or Five Star Saniclean.  I'll detail out my process on that when I get closer to that step.



#10 positiveContact

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Posted 22 January 2018 - 10:23 AM

Drze says he didn't taste it, but I seem to taste off flavors that are hard to describe.  I'll pop a bottle tonight and try to describe it as i'm drinking it.

 

Peppering with questions is fine.   I'll likely bottle.   I usually soak my bottles in StarSan or Five Star Saniclean.  I'll detail out my process on that when I get closer to that step.

 

make sure to describe how the flavor is detected.  can you smell it?  is it up front?  after you swallow on the finish?



#11 Hines

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Posted 22 January 2018 - 11:35 AM

yes sir.



#12 positiveContact

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Posted 22 January 2018 - 12:10 PM

yes sir.


Sorry! Didn't mean to give marching orders :blush:

#13 Hines

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Posted 22 January 2018 - 01:03 PM

Sorry! Didn't mean to give marching orders :blush:

i didn't take it that way.   I'm just hoping i can describe in a way that makes sense.

 

I haven't bottled in almost a year, so whatever beer I have might have mellowed out and lost the taste.   For what it's worth, I usually only taste the off flavors for the first 5 sips or so.  AFter that, my taste buds just don't recognize it any more.   i relate it to when I drink Bell's Two Hearted.   On the rare occasion that I get that beer somewhat fresh, I taste so many good flavors.  But, by the 5th sip....I can't taste them any more.  damn taste buds.



#14 BarelyBrews

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Posted 22 January 2018 - 02:36 PM

i didn't take it that way.   I'm just hoping i can describe in a way that makes sense.

 

I haven't bottled in almost a year, so whatever beer I have might have mellowed out and lost the taste.   For what it's worth, I usually only taste the off flavors for the first 5 sips or so.  AFter that, my taste buds just don't recognize it any more.   i relate it to when I drink Bell's Two Hearted.   On the rare occasion that I get that beer somewhat fresh, I taste so many good flavors.  But, by the 5th sip....I can't taste them any more.  damn taste buds.

Unless your decanting the bells beer in a glass, i would think the small amount of bottlie conditioning yeast would be mixed up in the last amount of there beer. I know there is less yeast in there beers then there used to be. (my BIL worked there for a time),, anywho..good luck 



#15 Hines

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Posted 22 January 2018 - 06:33 PM

My last bottle of brew #1 from 2017 didn’t have much of the plastic aftertaste tonight. This was fermented in the Speigel (sp?).

I plan on doing my next beer in one of the glass carboys that I still have.

#16 Bklmt2000

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Posted 22 January 2018 - 07:11 PM

Hines, another question:

 

How are you treating your brewing water?  Carbon filtration, salt additions, acid additions, etc.?

 

I ask as I saw your earlier post say "plastic aftertaste", which made me think water treatment might be another area to look at.



#17 Hines

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Posted 22 January 2018 - 07:42 PM

No treatment. Straight tap that sat in a spiedel overnight

Edit, batch #2 last year was straight spring water....literally straight out of a mountain spring. Sat in gallon jug for a couple hours.

Edited by Hines, 22 January 2018 - 07:43 PM.


#18 HVB

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Posted 22 January 2018 - 07:52 PM

Drze says he didn't taste it, but I seem to taste off flavors that are hard to describe. I'll pop a bottle tonight and try to describe it as i'm drinking it.

Peppering with questions is fine. I'll likely bottle. I usually soak my bottles in StarSan or Five Star Saniclean. I'll detail out my process on that when I get closer to that step.


Correct, I didn't taste it in the samples you sent me.

#19 Hines

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 02:12 PM

sometimes i think i have broken taste buds!



#20 Hines

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Posted 24 January 2018 - 08:13 AM

holy cockadookie, ritebrew wants to charge $17 in shipping for a $20 kit!   I'll find another location for kits.  dang.




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