29 replies to this topic

[Bevo]

Hey guys I am brewing my first batch this weekend, I was wondering when I should rack to secondary(5gallon carboy) or if i should just keep it in my 6.5 gallon bucket the whole time. Do you guys think there might be to much headspace in the bucket to keep my brew in there for a month?

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

Hey guys I am brewing my first batch this weekend, I was wondering when I should rack to secondary(5gallon carboy) or if i should just keep it in my 6.5 gallon bucket the whole time. Do you guys think there might be to much headspace in the bucket to keep my brew in there for a month?

it'd be best to wait until fermentation is pretty much done before transferring to secondary. In most cases 2 weeks does the job but the best way is to check the gravity. You can keep the beer in there for a month if you want to though - it shouldn't be a problem.

[ncbeerbrewer]

Bevo,You can rack to secondary once your fermentation has completed and stopped. I suggest verifying this by doing 2 gravity checks over a 2-3 day period, if it stays he same you are good. Don't base completion on the airlock activity. I have some 6.5 gal carboys and I have tried to store for extended periods and been alright. I believe its ideal to have the least amount of head space and I would rack after fermentation but if your sanitization is good you could leave it in your primary for a month. I suggest you rack to secondary. I believe there was a discussion recently on here on doing secondary conditioning or not, some like some don't, I prefer it. Hope this helps.

[ChefLamont]

Congrats on your first batch! No matter what, the first batch is always a wild ride.This is important and needs repeating, especially if bottling is your final serving vessel:

Don't base completion on the airlock activity.

There has been some good discussion over the last couple of years about secondary (IMO better thought of as aging rather than a second fermentation). I geneerally dont do a secondary any more but leave it in primary for ~3 weeks for most beers. For ones that will age a while, I will do a secondary.My advice is don't do one on your first couple of batches. The reasons are: 1. It's your first batch, patience will not be easy. Let it go in primary for 2-3 weeks and bottle (if fermentation has been verified complete). You know you will be chomping at the bit to try it so don't fuss with a secondary. 2. While this is true for anyone and all of is, transferring to secondary is another opportunity for contamination. Until you get the practices and procedures down, I wouldn't add the risk. 3. Similar to #1 secondary is more about clarity and fine tuning of the flavors. While we would always encourage to make the best beer possible, for a first beer, have a slightly cloudy beer is not a huge deal in my book. et your first one under your belt and move up from there.Now don't think I am all against secondary. I do them on some and believe they have necessary places, but for a first beer....meh skip it.Oh other advice. Start planning batch 2 immediately. It is a good way to break up the excruciating wait on batch #1

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

good advice - I never did secondary when I first started out. Made life much simpler.

[Deerslyr]

I'm surprised no one asked... what type of beer are you brewing? Reason I say is because if it's a Hefe, you definitely DON'T want to secondary, the beauty of that beer being in its lack of clarity and quick turnaround. That being said, whether I secondary depends upon a few factors. First, (as others have said) I will secondary (or rather age) beer that requires it. Typically your high gravity beers need this. Second, I will secondary (for a short period of maybe a week) if I'm doing another batch and want to harvest the yeast out of the primary. (I'm too lazy to brew and bottle on the same day, but kegging is changing all that... too easy to keg while the boil is taking place.) Third, I will secondary if I am going to dry hop. There is no sense in dry hopping during a primary, as the fermentation activity will just strip away the aromas. Fourth, if for some reason the yeast is not falling out like I expected AND I want a clearer beer, then I will do a secondary and add gelatin to help clear it out.These are all things that you can try in the future once you have your process down. You will be able to make great beer without a secondary, and I highly reccomend putting off a secondary until you have reason to do it. Don't worry, you will know when. In the meantime, get that first batch underway!

[ChefLamont]

I'm surprised no one asked... what type of beer are you brewing?

....oops I meant to.

[Deerslyr]

....oops I meant to.

I know, I know... when someone new to brewing comes in its just so damn exciting that we all just want to spill our brains out and dispense a lot of knowledge. Hopefully we provide consistent messages.Oh... and since I didn't mention it previously and it was briefly mentioned... this is directed to the OP. As this is your first brew, please PLEASE pay careful attention to sanitary conditions. This is so important once the wort has cooled below the temps that would kill anything. Lots of methods and chemical agents are used, and we all have our preferences. What is your plan of attack for sanitizing?

[ThroatwobblerMangrove]

I know, I know... when someone new to brewing comes in its just so damn exciting that we all just want to spill our brains out and dispense a lot of knowledge. Hopefully we provide consistent messages.Oh... and since I didn't mention it previously and it was briefly mentioned... this is directed to the OP. As this is your first brew, please PLEASE pay careful attention to sanitary conditions. This is so important once the wort has cooled below the temps that would kill anything. Lots of methods and chemical agents are used, and we all have our preferences. What is your plan of attack for sanitizing?

star san is your friend - don't fear the foam

[Deerslyr]

star san is your friend - don't fear the foam

+1 Not only "don't fear the foam", but "foam is your friend!" I just recently made the switch to Starsan from Iodophor and love it. No more staining!!!

[Bevo]

Thanks for all the great advice guys! I think that I will skip the secondary as many of you have recommended. As for beer style, I will be brewing a kolsch style beer this Sunday and will make sure to post my progress..Again thank you all so much for your help, this forum has given me a great deal of confidence. Oh, I almost forgot I have been reading about sanitizing and its importance, so I did purchase the starsan.

[BigDaddyD]

+1 Not only "don't fear the foam", but "foam is your friend!" I just recently made the switch to Starsan from Iodophor and love it. No more staining!!!

Furthermore Starsan in small quantities is supposed to be good for the yeast. It is made up of organic compounds that when broken down apparently become food for yeast. Anyway all my beer's have a little starsan lovin' in them and have been pretty damn good to date.

[Deerslyr]

Thanks for all the great advice guys! I think that I will skip the secondary as many of you have recommended. As for beer style, I will be brewing a kolsch style beer this Sunday and will make sure to post my progress..Again thank you all so much for your help, this forum has given me a great deal of confidence. Oh, I almost forgot I have been reading about sanitizing and its importance, so I did purchase the starsan.

Are you brewing with a Kolsch yeast? Reason I say is that it is optimal at lower temperatures and thus takes longer to ferment. Don't get me wrong, it's a great beer. I made one last winter so I could keep the temps down. But if you are looking for a quick first beer, the turnaround isn't quite so quick. However, whatever your recipe is (I'm assuming you are using liquid or dried malt extract as opposed to all grain) you could use US-05 for a much quicker, cleaner yeast. Fill me in on whats contained in the kit, including type of yeast.

[Bevo]

Deerslyr, for yeast I will be using Safale US-05, 6lbs light malt extract....Grains are 1 1/2lb of German Pilsner, 1/2lb light crystal malt...Hops are 1oz Hallertauer at 60min, 1/2oz Hallertau at 15min and 1/2oz hallertau at 7 min....What do you think of this?

[BigDaddyD]

Deerslyr, for yeast I will be using Safale US-05, 6lbs light malt extract....Grains are 1 1/2lb of German Pilsner, 1/2lb light crystal malt...Hops are 1oz Hallertauer at 60min, 1/2oz Hallertau at 15min and 1/2oz hallertau at 7 min....What do you think of this?

Are you doing a mini mash with that pilsner malt? Because if not you will end up with a bunch of starch from it and not a lot of sugars.

[Deerslyr]

Deerslyr, for yeast I will be using Safale US-05, 6lbs light malt extract....Grains are 1 1/2lb of German Pilsner, 1/2lb light crystal malt...Hops are 1oz Hallertauer at 60min, 1/2oz Hallertau at 15min and 1/2oz hallertau at 7 min....What do you think of this?

What do I think??? I'm thinking that would be a fantastic beer. I haven't used German Pils in any beer that I have designed. I think I'm scared of it, but couldn't really tell you why. The amount of crystal you are using seems appropriate, but might end up a bit sweeter than a Kolsch. (the Kolsch styles I have had tended to be on the dry side) The US-05 is my "go to" yeast. I love that stuff. One of the cheif criticisms of it is that it tends to dry out the beers, so on second thought your crystal amounts should be just fine. A further comment on US-05... I pitch the yeast dry. I don't make a slurry, I don't make a starter. I dunk the package and scissors in Star San, cut it and sprinkle on the cooled wort. You will see action within 12 hours. Good luck and let us know how it goes. I kicked my last keg last night, but unfortunately don't have anything remotely close to being ready. I need to brew at least 2 batches to get caught up.

[consumptionjunction]

Are you doing a mini mash with that pilsner malt? Because if not you will end up with a bunch of starch from it and not a lot of sugars.

+1If you are using the pilsner malt in steeping bags, keep them "steeping" at low temperatures; between 145 and 158F for about an hour, and try not to make it too liquid (maybe about .75 to 1.25 gallons - you can add more water later for the boil). This activates the enzymes in the malt and will convert the starches to sugars for you. Keep in mind that you will get a more fermentable extract from the lower temperatures in that range, and there are reasons why, which you will come to learn soon enough. Otherwise, yes, the pilsner malt will contribute starches and a noticeable haze to the beer, and a secondary will not help reduce the starch haze. The extract you have is the starches already converted for you, and the crystal malt is mostly converted for you by the maltsters. "Steeping" is usually done for the heavily modified malts, like your crystals, or roasted barleys, because those have already been converted for you and you're just getting the flavors and colors from them.Instead of steeping, some people do a mini-mash. There are many ways to do this, including what I previously mentioned (though it isn't the most efficient method). Other ways are to go without a steeping bag, and to pour the wort after about an hour through a colander, thus separating the liquid from the grains. Other ways are more complex and require added equipment.Good-luck!! Let us know how it goes, and, please, be care with sanitation.

[Bevo]

+1If you are using the pilsner malt in steeping bags, keep them "steeping" at low temperatures; between 145 and 158F for about an hour, and try not to make it too liquid (maybe about .75 to 1.25 gallons - you can add more water later for the boil). This activates the enzymes in the malt and will convert the starches to sugars for you. Keep in mind that you will get a more fermentable extract from the lower temperatures in that range, and there are reasons why, which you will come to learn soon enough. Otherwise, yes, the pilsner malt will contribute starches and a noticeable haze to the beer, and a secondary will not help reduce the starch haze. The extract you have is the starches already converted for you, and the crystal malt is mostly converted for you by the maltsters. "Steeping" is usually done for the heavily modified malts, like your crystals, or roasted barleys, because those have already been converted for you and you're just getting the flavors and colors from them.Instead of steeping, some people do a mini-mash. There are many ways to do this, including what I previously mentioned (though it isn't the most efficient method). Other ways are to go without a steeping bag, and to pour the wort after about an hour through a colander, thus separating the liquid from the grains. Other ways are more complex and require added equipment.Good-luck!! Let us know how it goes, and, please, be care with sanitation.

So if I didn't do the mini-mash should I nix the pilsner or do you have any other suggestions? I really want to keep this first batch somewhat simple. The guy at my hombrew supply store gave me this recipe and said I should steep these for thirty minutes@ 165

[jayb151]

So if I didn't do the mini-mash should I nix the pilsner or do you have any other suggestions? I really want to keep this first batch somewhat simple. The guy at my hombrew supply store gave me this recipe and said I should steep these for thirty minutes@ 165

I would say put the steeping bag full of grains in the water before you do anything. Then, start the heat and take at least a half hour to get to 165, then take the bag out. That way, you are going through the temps where the grain will convert itself. I might also recomend a 90 minute boil. Pilsner malt can contribute to some "canned corn" flavors (called DMS). I'm not an expert, so maybe someone else can jump in. I honestly don't think that small amount will contribute much, but better safe than sorry. You don't want a corny Kolsch!

[consumptionjunction]

So if I didn't do the mini-mash should I nix the pilsner or do you have any other suggestions? I really want to keep this first batch somewhat simple. The guy at my hombrew supply store gave me this recipe and said I should steep these for thirty minutes@ 165

It really doesn't have to be that hard. You were planning on steeping those grains, right? Do you have a thermometer? You should try to keep the steeping below 170F regardless to avoid tannin extraction; so, while you're at it, just try to keep it lower, between 140 and 160. This way, the enzymes necessary to do any conversion will be active, and will work for you. Being over 160F, you are denaturing the enzymes a bit, and, though there may be some available, you may not get most of the starch conversion.

I would say put the steeping bag full of grains in the water before you do anything. Then, start the heat and take at least a half hour to get to 165, then take the bag out. That way, you are going through the temps where the grain will convert itself. I might also recomend a 90 minute boil. Pilsner malt can contribute to some "canned corn" flavors (called DMS). I'm not an expert, so maybe someone else can jump in. I honestly don't think that small amount will contribute much, but better safe than sorry. You don't want a corny Kolsch!

This seems like a good plan. Just watch it and try to keep it below 160F. If you can, great! If not, your beer will still be fine. If you want to be weary of anything, it should be sanitation; this is one area where it pays to be a little ocd.Are you doing a partial boil? How do you plan on cooling your wort before pitching the yeast? (Just make sure it's below 90F.) Make sure you follow directions on the yeast package and prime the yeast with sterile water. (I heard doing it in the wort is bad because the sugar concentration is not good for re-hydration and healthy cell walls, though this is not what I did the one time I used dry yeast and it turned out just fine - thoughts out there?) Do you have any plans for controlling fermentation temperature?