72 replies to this topic

[denny]

Yeah, I have it now too. I should have known better.

 

Bryan seems to stalk people to see what they're saying.

[djinkc]

I don't mean to button-push but I had a comment on the low-O2 board about the 30-minute boil being a recipe for disaster. I know that those who have done it here have enjoyed the results but has anyone seen anything that suggests any drawbacks? I know Drez is using it but who else here is using the 30m boil and what are your impressions?

 

I think I've done 5 or so without checking my notes.  I have noted nothing different from my 60 minute boils except I can't get as much other brew day stuff done during the boil.

[HVB]

I will. If all goes well, tonight I will be making your waterpark with a slightly altered hop schedule, a 60 minute boil, and US-05.

Sounds great! I will be doing that beer soon with 1450 or London Fog.

[positiveContact]

Ugh.   It doesn't have to be like this...    

 

no soup for you!

 

Bryan seems to stalk people to see what they're saying.

 

oy ve!

[Big Nake]

Does anyone think that something like the 8 gallon Fast Ferment would have any positive impact on low-O2 processes? I'm thinking in terms of moving the [almost] finished beer to the keg with gravity so racking wouldn't be necessary. The part about getting my beer from old-school, plastic primary to keg is still something I'm struggling with. Drez, you mentioned a tri-clamp thing... do you have any additional information on what it does, where I get it and how I use it?

[neddles]

Does anyone think that something like the 8 gallon Fast Ferment would have any positive impact on low-O2 processes? I'm thinking in terms of moving the [almost] finished beer to the keg with gravity so racking wouldn't be necessary. The part about getting my beer from old-school, plastic primary to keg is still something I'm struggling with. Drez, you mentioned a tri-clamp thing... do you have any additional information on what it does, where I get it and how I use it?

 

Can you ferment in one of your carboys Ken? Then do a closed transfer through a carboy cap.

[pkrone]

I'd get one of those big mouth bubblers with a spigot before I got one of those fast ferment thingies.  Cheaper and easy to move around.

[Big Nake]

I'd get one of those big mouth bubblers with a spigot before I got one of those fast ferment thingies.  Cheaper and easy to move around.

I was just having that conversation and it seems like someone over there is using something similar to an Anvil stainless fermenter so they can send the beer into a purged keg without having to "push it". I'm not opposed to pushing it necessarily but I was wondering what equipment out there might lend itself to a more low-O2 process. I'm willing to spend a few bucks to make the transition easier considering I have been skating with very cheap equipment for a very long time.

Can you ferment in one of your carboys Ken? Then do a closed transfer through a carboy cap.

I have a few 5 gallon PET Better Bottles and I think I have one 6.5 gallon but I haven't used them in forever. I suppose I could use the 6.5 gallon PET Better Bottle to ferment in and then push the beer out through the carboy cap and into a keg... a closed transfer that should be relatively low-O2. That's a thought for sure... as long as I didn't sell that Better Bottle at a garage sale or something.

[HVB]

Ken,

 

Did you take into account the trifecta impact on water when you figured out the rest of you water additions?

[Big Nake]

Ken,
 
Did you take into account the trifecta impact on water when you figured out the rest of you water additions?

Do you mean in terms of pH?

With the ascorbic acid and the NaMeta in there I assume that my standard [small] additions of CaCl and CaSO4 are not really affected. I have only 12ppm of Na in my water so I can't see an issue there and with only .66g in the entire batch I assumed there wasn't much to consider. Tell me if I'm wrong.

In related news, I posted over there that I have a beer ready right now where a lot of the early low-O2 ideas were implemented but the beers fermented over the holidays and while I was on vacation so I cleaned & sanitized (iodophor) the kegs and pushed the sanitizer out and then just open-transferred to the kegs and force-carbed them. I sampled the first one (a blonde ale) and it has a very different character although the guys over there said the open transfer and force carbing may strip the beer of that character quickly. The point is that the beer is very good and I did not adjust my water additions from what I would normally do. The hops are MUCH more apparent and sort of "spicy" in this beer. Three ounces of Crystal 3.3% added at 10, 2 and in the WP. Really, really crisp & fresh hop character on this beer. It's encouraging to see that there is a difference even if I didn't do ALL of the low-O2 steps.

[HVB]

Do you mean in terms of pH?

With the ascorbic acid and the NaMeta in there I assume that my standard [small] additions of CaCl and CaSO4 are not really affected. I have only 12ppm of Na in my water so I can't see an issue there and with only .66g in the entire batch I assumed there wasn't much to consider. Tell me if I'm wrong.
 

I meant in terms over overall water profile.  Do the additions of SMB and AA impact that to shift the starting values.  I do not know the answer.  I see there are spreadsheets but they are confusing to me.

 

How did the addition impact your pH?  I assumed it lowered it.

[Big Nake]

I meant in terms over overall water profile.  Do the additions of SMB and AA impact that to shift the starting values.  I do not know the answer.  I see there are spreadsheets but they are confusing to me.
 
How did the addition impact your pH?  I assumed it lowered it.

I'll be honest: On pH I have reached a sort of "zen-like" accuracy. What I mean is... nothing really impacts the pH enough to make you adjust it... at least for me. Not "dark grains", not CaCl or CaSO4, not BTB, etc. My additions are small. My pH doesn't really get bounced around with these other things enough for me to adjust the amount of lactic acid I add. I have been adding 4ml of lactic acid to my water regardless of the color of the wort. My additions are ALWAYS about 3g of a combination of CaCl and CaSO4 and the ratio depends on the style... so the amount is generally the same. BTB doesn't seem to move the pH much and with SMB and ascorbic acid being only .66 grams each, I can't imagine there being an issue. That may require a closer look but at this point I'm treating the additions like they have their own purpose but my other things stay exactly as they were.

[HVB]

Ok.  So did you use these spreadsheets or just take the values for the SMB,AA and BTB from Pkrone and use the rations he used?

[Big Nake]

Ok.  So did you use these spreadsheets or just take the values for the SMB,AA and BTB from Pkrone and use the rations he used?

I used pkrone's numbers and determined his amounts and adjusted it for my own purposes. I bounced that off of him and he said it was correct... 40/40/20 SMB/AA/BTB and that comes to .66/.66/.33 for my total of about 7.5 gallons of brewing water. I did read something about using ascorbic acid for "beer brewing" and saw some sort of cautionary information but the article was from 1998 or something. The only caveat was the SMB and I think we covered it... if you use too much and it's not expended by scavenging O2, some will be left in the beer and can bring out a "FART-BEER" character. I think my NaMeta dosing comes in around 26ppm (I'm not sure if I'm remembering that correctly or not) and someone on the Low-O2 board said something about lowering that to 20ppm. Maybe I'll post over there and ask for the specifics so it can be tailored to any batch.

[HVB]

I used pkrone's numbers and determined his amounts and adjusted it for my own purposes. I bounced that off of him and he said it was correct... 40/40/20 SMB/AA/BTB and that comes to .66/.66/.33 for my total of about 7.5 gallons of brewing water.

 

In this thread you listed those amounts for 5g, I just want to make sure that I am using the correct ratio to determine what I need for my batch.

[neddles]

Download the "low-o2 quick reference spreadsheet" from over there. They recommend to start at 20ppm NaMeta. reduce NaMeta dose in subsequent batches, if you can. Remember that when using the spreadsheet mg/l = ppm. My dose of trifecta for 8 gallons of strike water came out very close to Ken's.

Edited by neddles, 17 January 2018 - 12:55 PM.

[HVB]

Download the "low-o2 quick reference spreadsheet" from over there. They recommend to start at 20ppm NaMeta. reduce NaMeta dose in subsequent batches, if you can. Remember that when using the spreadsheet mg/l = ppm. My dose of trifecta for 8 gallons of strike water came out very close to Ken's.

I have that and I have been spending time off and on today trying to understand it and I am failing. 

 

So for my 7.4g I would use .74,.74 and .37

 

 

And this would tell me that I have added 64PPM to my SO4 and 15PPM to my NA before any other water additions?

 

Edited by drez77, 17 January 2018 - 01:04 PM.

[Big Nake]

Maybe I worked it out to 5 gallons because that's the amount I typically mash with. The trifecta goes into the mash and that's all... not the sparge. Or maybe the amounts I use are sufficient for 7.5 gallons (total brewing water) which is why it comes out so close to neddles' numbers. I forget how I arrived at it now but I confirmed it with pkrone and he said it was correct. Neddles' 20ppm number sounds like what I mentioned in my last post. My .66g of NaMeta in 5 gallons (or maybe that's 7.5 gallons) must come to 26ppm which some mentioned as high. In tasting this blonde ale yesterday (I had 3-4 pints of it), there was NO 'fart-beer' character to it at all which suggests that ALL of the SMB was used by scavenging O2.

[neddles]

I have that and I have been spending time off and on today trying to understand it and I am failing.

So for my 7.4g I would use .74,.74 and .37



And this would tell me that I have added 64PPM to my SO4 and 15PPM to my NA before any other water additions?

I think you have that correct. Though I am in the dark about exactly how much of that SO4 makes it to the final beer.

[HVB]

I think you have that correct. Though I am in the dark about exactly how much of that SO4 makes it to the final beer.

Thanks

 

I guess I would start off by using a water profile I had used before and see where the final beer came out taste wise and then adjust from there...