72 replies to this topic

[Big Nake]

I was on vacation and I've been back for a couple days. I have an Amber Ale and a Blonde that were both in primary while I was gone so they're done. I have been examining my whole process to try to incorporate some low-O2 things and both of those latest batches had some new low-O2 things done on them. But I don't really have the equipment or the knowledge for some things including how to get the beer from the plastic primary to a purged keg (Drez did post a pic of a tri-clamp thing so that's in my brain) and I'm having spunding nightmares too. I keep going into my beer bunker, looking around suspiciously and then turning the light off and leaving. I need to get these two latest beers into kegs and I need to make a new batch using any and all low-O2 processes that I can think of so maybe this weekend. Who else is incorporating low-O2 measures and how would you rate your low-O2 level on a scale from 1-to-10?

[HVB]

I am kind of in a lull myself right now.  I have been re-working my brewing room and changing out some parts of my brewery.  I do not see any brewing till late January or early Feb for me.  I need to get a few beers on tap for a March birthday party so I need to get going!

[denny]

I was on vacation and I've been back for a couple days. I have an Amber Ale and a Blonde that were both in primary while I was gone so they're done. I have been examining my whole process to try to incorporate some low-O2 things and both of those latest batches had some new low-O2 things done on them. But I don't really have the equipment or the knowledge for some things including how to get the beer from the plastic primary to a purged keg (Drez did post a pic of a tri-clamp thing so that's in my brain) and I'm having spunding nightmares too. I keep going into my beer bunker, looking around suspiciously and then turning the light off and leaving. I need to get these two latest beers into kegs and I need to make a new batch using any and all low-O2 processes that I can think of so maybe this weekend. Who else is incorporating low-O2 measures and how would you rate your low-O2 level on a scale from 1-to-10?

 

Ya know, homebrewing is supposed to be an enjoyable hobby.  If you're stressing and worrying about it, maybe you need to rethink things.

[Big Nake]

Ya know, homebrewing is supposed to be an enjoyable hobby.  If you're stressing and worrying about it, maybe you need to rethink things.

I got it. I'm not going to become a low-O2 Nazi but I do want to try some of this stuff to see how the beers come out with some tweaks.

[HVB]

Ya know, homebrewing is supposed to be an enjoyable hobby.  If you're stressing and worrying about it, maybe you need to rethink things.

I think enjoyable is defined by the user.  I find it enjoyable to build not parts of my brewery and you seem not to like that.  Enjoyable is different for everyone.

[Big Nake]

I think enjoyable is defined by the user.  I find it enjoyable to build not parts of my brewery and you seem not to like that.  Enjoyable is different for everyone.

Yeah and I also fall into the open-minded group when it comes to new ideas about brewing. Some don't apply to me (like how to get the hoppiest beers possible!) but other ideas interest me and I feel like I want to try them out to see if I notice an improvement in the beers. But some of the low-O2 stuff is very challenging for me and my ancient system.

[HVB]

Yeah and I also fall into the open-minded group when it comes to new ideas about brewing. Some don't apply to me (like how to get the hoppiest beers possible!) but other ideas interest me and I feel like I want to try them out to see if I notice an improvement in the beers. But some of the low-O2 stuff is very challenging for me and my ancient system.

I think you should try the NEIPA craze.  They are not bitter but have aroma and flavor, I think you would like it as long as you poured it in a opaque glass

[Big Nake]

I think you should try the NEIPA craze.  They are not bitter but have aroma and flavor, I think you would like it as long as you poured it in a opaque glass

[Big Nake]

Okay, an update: I went to one of my LHBSs today and picked up some ascorbic acid, iodophor, lactic acid, some DME, some 2124, whirfloc, I got a CO2 tank filled and... they now have BTB! I picked some up and said to her, "HEY! You have Brewtan B now!" and she said, "I know! Do you know what it is and how to use it?" and I said, "I've been using it since 2016 and asked you if you had ever heard of it... remember!?". She knows Joe Formanek and has talked with him about it, etc. I also started asking her about any low-O2 methods she uses. I started telling her some of the stuff mentioned on low-O2 and she thought I was nuts. Truly.

Anyway, if the low-O2 thing is not your thing, look away. I'm tired of noodling with this so I'm laying out my low-O2 plan for a batch of helles with 2124 this weekend. What I want to do is find a sort of middle ground where I find an improvement in the beer, I am comfortable with my process but not a full-on low-O2 Nazi. Here goes:

1. Add the yeast + sugar to the brew water 2 hours prior to heating the mash water. The O2 level in the water should be low.
2. Start heating the water and add lactic acid, brewing salts and the 'trifecta mix'... for me that's .66g of sodium metabisulfite, .66g of ascorbic acid and .33g of BTB.
3. Transfer the mash water using hi-temp tubing into the MT where the milled & conditioned malt is waiting... underlet the water into the MT.
4. Stir slowly and carefully but completely. Get pH and temp in the right spot and the cover with the mash cap (just finished fabricating that today).
5. After an hour slowly recirc (using a short length of tubing into a measuring cup) and run off into the kettle.
6. Do the same with the sparge water... no trifecta mix but BTB and lactic acid.
7. Boil for 30 minutes on a low boil.
8. Chill with SS chiller with a slow, careful stir & then allow to settle in ice bath.
9. Transfer to primary and add pure O2 and pitch. Even the low-O2 Nazis say this is okay because the yeast will start to metabolize the O2.
10. Allow to ferment until about 5-8 gravity points are left in the ferment.

Here's where things get dicey.

11. Sanitize the keg with iodophor and push out with CO2 and then transfer the beer to the keg leaving most of the yeast behind. Harvest the yeast for another batch.
12. Seal the keg with a blast of CO2. Connect spunding valve and set to about 0.8 bar (around 12psi) and let the fermentation finish up... possibly another 1-2 weeks.
13. Put keg in fridge and chill for another 2 weeks and then sample.

I know that some of those steps are not kosher to the low-O2ers. Some would say that some of those steps cancel out ALL the other steps but I want to see if doing this will show an improvement in my beers. My hope is that the trifecta mix will cover me on some of the less-graceful steps although I'm sure that's not realistic. The standards that some of the low-O2ers have set for themselves may not even apply to me. If anyone sees anything in there that absolutely needs to be addressed, let me know.

[pkrone]

Looks good to me.   I think you'll like the results.  Especially the big, dense foam with the spund.   I'm waiting to tap my first keg using the float on the silicone dip tube thingy to see what that does form my clarity.   

[Big Nake]

Looks good to me.   I think you'll like the results.  Especially the big, dense foam with the spund.   I'm waiting to tap my first keg using the float on the silicone dip tube thingy to see what that does form my clarity.

Pete, let me ask you about a couple things here: What about the idea of transferring the beer to the keg with some amount of fermentation left but leaving the majority of the yeast in the primary? Is that going to be an issue when there is still 5ish gravity points left? I feel like it would be okay but I'm looking for a way to keep as much yeast out of the keg as possible. Next, I have no solid way to do that transfer from a plastic primary to a keg. I could try to put my racking cane in through the grommet in the lid of the primary (it fits) but it would still basically be an open transfer which I know is very bad juju. I feel like that one specific spot in the process is the weakest... any thoughts on a better approach? Thanks for the help.

One other thing: After the beer is completely fermented, carbed and chilled, I would hit it with a gel solution. I could try to think of a low-O2 way to do that. Any idea how some of those guys on lowoxygenbrewing.com get their beers so clear?

[denny]

I think enjoyable is defined by the user.  I find it enjoyable to build not parts of my brewery and you seem not to like that.  Enjoyable is different for everyone.

 

Oh, very much so...no argument there!  But it sounded like Ken was stressing over the new processes and his beer in general.  That's what I was referring to.

[djinkc]

...........................how would you rate your low-O2 level on a scale from 1-to-10?

 

good enough for me

 

relax............

 

you know the rest

[Big Nake]

I know some are not into this and others are too into this. I'm somewhere in the middle in that I want to try it. I'm not necessarily stressing as much as I'm unsure how to do some of this with the equipment I have. I think that Pkrone has gone quite a bit down this road and I think he has a much more flexible take on how it can be done when compared to some of the people on the low-O2 board. It's just an experiment that I want to take for a test drive.

[Big Nake]

Oh... I'd also like to think that one other step I made was sealing up the hops in the vac-sealed bags. Before that I might just put them in a Ziploc bag and put them back in the freezer. I used to use A LOT of 1-oz bags of hops so there were rarely leftovers but now with the HUGE amount of hops I have, I'm trying to keep them as fresh as possible so fresh hops + fresher-tasting and possibly maltier-tasting beers should equal more beer heaven. Or so I hope.

[pkrone]

Pete, let me ask you about a couple things here: What about the idea of transferring the beer to the keg with some amount of fermentation left but leaving the majority of the yeast in the primary? Is that going to be an issue when there is still 5ish gravity points left? I feel like it would be okay but I'm looking for a way to keep as much yeast out of the keg as possible. Next, I have no solid way to do that transfer from a plastic primary to a keg. I could try to put my racking cane in through the grommet in the lid of the primary (it fits) but it would still basically be an open transfer which I know is very bad juju. I feel like that one specific spot in the process is the weakest... any thoughts on a better approach? Thanks for the help.

One other thing: After the beer is completely fermented, carbed and chilled, I would hit it with a gel solution. I could try to think of a low-O2 way to do that. Any idea how some of those guys on lowoxygenbrewing.com get their beers so clear?

 

You're going to be transferring plenty of yeast still in suspension, so yea, leave as much yeast behind as you can.  And save it, if that works for you.   Could you drill another hole in your lid. (keeping it plugged during fermentation)   And use that second hole as an access point to push the beer w/ some CO2?

 

As far as gel goes...   you could try injecting it through the gas in port.   It may be difficult as the beer is carbed.   Just be patient and try a few things over the next few months and see how it goes.  If these floating dip tubes don't cut it for me, I'm cutting my SS dip tubes.   

[pkrone]

I'm also convinced that some of those LODO gurus aren't much different from true German brewmasters:  they'll give you some insight into what they're doing, but withhold a few details at the same time.  

Edited by pkrone, 09 January 2018 - 08:44 PM.

[neddles]

You're going to be transferring plenty of yeast still in suspension, so yea, leave as much yeast behind as you can.  And save it, if that works for you.   Could you drill another hole in your lid. (keeping it plugged during fermentation)   And use that second hole as an access point to push the beer w/ some CO2?

 

As far as gel goes...   you could try injecting it through the gas in port.   It may be difficult as the beer is carbed.   Just be patient and try a few things over the next few months and see how it goes.  If these floating dip tubes don't cut it for me, I'm cutting my SS dip tubes.   

 

Are you using the Clear Beer System ones or the Fermentasaurus ones?

[pkrone]

Are you using the Clear Beer System ones or the Fermentasaurus ones?

 

I got that fermentasaurus one.   I haven't tried it yet- waiting for my first keg with one in there to condition.   I tested it with water and it was a little jiggy when the keg was full, but flowed better at a slightly lower level.   It'll probably require some fiddling, but we'll see. 

[Big Nake]

You're going to be transferring plenty of yeast still in suspension, so yea, leave as much yeast behind as you can.  And save it, if that works for you.   Could you drill another hole in your lid. (keeping it plugged during fermentation)   And use that second hole as an access point to push the beer w/ some CO2?
 
As far as gel goes...   you could try injecting it through the gas in port.   It may be difficult as the beer is carbed.   Just be patient and try a few things over the next few months and see how it goes.  If these floating dip tubes don't cut it for me, I'm cutting my SS dip tubes.

I'll keep all of this in mind. The weather here is supposed to deteriorate over the weekend so I may wait but all of the above processes will happen on my next batch of beer and I will report back. Cheers & thanks.