98 replies to this topic

[Big Nake]

Wait!  I thought clear beer was your thing

It is. So my plan is to go for a good 3-4 weeks with the beer cold, carbed and kegged and then see how the clarity looks. I mentioned before that there are some people over there looking closely at how to combat cloudiness so we'll see what happens. I might also go rogue on that and do what some others have considered: boil some water and let it cool to 170° or something. Then add some gel, swirl it and cover it. Then take that solution into a sanitized plastic syringe (I just bought a couple of 100ml jobbies). Then open the PRV port on the keg and also connect CO2 to the gas-in side of the keg. Inject the solution into the beer preferably under the surface of the beer. Close up PRV port. It's already been said (over there) that using a gel solution IS NOT LOW-O2 and I'm sure that's right. But maybe the beer will taste great to me and also be clear. We'll see on all of that.

[neddles]

I saw your comment over there. It was mentioned in one of my threads that 2-3 points is enough for carb. This is one of the things that is making me a little jumpy... the idea that you might miss the window. On this helles that I brewed on Saturday, I got a nice quick start and the primary was really rocking. On Sunday night I was laying in bed thinking about how quickly the beer would be "in the window". Yesterday I took a gravity reading and it was only around 1.030. This morning it's still rocking hard and later today I'll probably have to check it again. I'm sure this is all newbie anxiety. So your beer was brewed on Thursday, right? And you spunded Monday? I realize there is no linear correlation but that would suggest mine will be ready tomorrow which seems very possible.

 

Yeah, that beer was pitched at 2AM Friday morning. It got a nice big active pitch of Bayern. There was a touch of H2S in the aroma but the flavor of the sample was pretty phenomenal.

 

One thing I am thinking, WRT your process Ken is that keeping your ferment cold will lend some flexibility to your spunding window. IOW, finishing the second half of your ferment at warmer temps will accelerate the fermentation and the spunding window will be shorter. Something to think about.

Edited by neddles, 30 January 2018 - 09:06 AM.

[Big Nake]

One thing I am thinking, WRT your process Ken is that keeping your ferment cold will lend some flexibility to your spunding window. IOW, finishing the second half of your ferment at warmer temps will accelerate the fermentation and the spunding window will be shorter. Something to think about.

I hear that. But I will be keeping the beer cool (48° or so) all the way up to the point of spunding so that should not have an impact on the 'catching the window' itself. Once I see that I'm in the window, I'll do a closed-transfer to the purged keg and start the spund at which point the temp will begin to rise. Are you using a fridge that is large enough to hold the primary and also large enough to hold a keg? If so, are you doing the spund at the cooler temps? I'm scouring my local Craigslist to see if I can get another fridge similar to the 4.4cf Danby models that I have. I keep asking people to measure the inside of their fridge and I've already had 2 people say, "Are you trying to put a keg in there?". If I find one, I'll get it so I can spund lagers cooler.

[denny]

I am not for or against this method yet, I do cap my fermenter and transfer to a keg at 5+ psi already so I partially do this just out of my processes but with regards to the bolded part, one of the very popular breweries around me ( you did NOT like them) specifically called out spunding in one of their new beers.  Just because they do not see breweries doing it does not mean they are not.

 

For or against doesn't characterize my position.  It just holds no appeal for me and is impractical with the rest of my life.

[HVB]

For or against doesn't characterize my position.  It just holds no appeal for me and is impractical with the rest of my life.

I get it you do not like it.  I was just point out that just because they do not see it does not mean that breweries are not doing it.

[neddles]

I hear that. But I will be keeping the beer cool (48° or so) all the way up to the point of spunding so that should not have an impact on the 'catching the window' itself. Once I see that I'm in the window, I'll do a closed-transfer to the purged keg and start the spund at which point the temp will begin to rise. Are you using a fridge that is large enough to hold the primary and also large enough to hold a keg? If so, are you doing the spund at the cooler temps? I'm scouring my local Craigslist to see if I can get another fridge similar to the 4.4cf Danby models that I have. I keep asking people to measure the inside of their fridge and I've already had 2 people say, "Are you trying to put a keg in there?". If I find one, I'll get it so I can spund lagers cooler.

 

Yeah, I can get a 6 gallon carboy and a keg in there. It's an almost full size fridge, like 16 or 18 cf, IIRC.

[denny]

I get it you do not like it.  I was just point out that just because they do not see it does not mean that breweries are not doing it.

 

Very true, but then out of sight, out of mind, huh?

[Big Nake]

Yeah, I can get a 6 gallon carboy and a keg in there. It's an almost full size fridge, like 16 or 18 cf, IIRC.

Okay, got it. For the past year or more I've been doing this quick lager method where it's 5 days or so at cooler temps and then warmer for the rest of the fermentation and those lagers were very good. I don't see an issue with my doing the same thing here although there may be a low-O2 angle that I'm not considering and I also think that someone mentioned that the cool temps being constant would keep some desirable sulfury compounds in the beer where the warmer temps may remove them. I'm willing to do a couple this way first and then maybe use my on-deck fridge at 45-50° on a few others and then compare. If the "all-cool-all-the-time" versions are better then I'll look for a replacement lager fridge that will allow me to get a keg in there.

[HVB]

Very true, but then out of sight, out of mind, huh?

For some maybe for others not really.

[positiveContact]

So sulfur is good now?

Also, Denny, drez, what are you guys taking about?? I feel like I'm missing something.

[neddles]

I spunded my Helles last night. It was 0.003 gravity points above the FG of my fast ferment. Probably give it 5 days or so to finish and then get it cold few 2-3 weeks. We will see.

 

Here it is 8 days from brewing, 3.5 days post spund, fully carbed, and at the FG predicted by my fast ferment test. The flavor is quite pronounced and lingering as they say. At least at this point it is. It has some H2S going on which isn't surprising. I'm in the process of getting it down to lagering temps 30-32F for a few weeks to see how well it clears up. This is the one that also got the Clear Beer System floating pickup in the keg.

[Big Nake]

NOICE!

Look at that foam. My helles gravity samples looked to be about the same color. It's amazing how the lower O2 keeps the color lighter as well. The helles wort that I made last weekend may have been the most pale wort I've ever made. I'm still getting the feel of the spunding but I'll get it eventually. Nice work neddles. Cheers.

[HVB]

That is pale! What was the grain bill? Foam looks Fluffy.

[neddles]

NOICE!

Look at that foam. My helles gravity samples looked to be about the same color. It's amazing how the lower O2 keeps the color lighter as well. The helles wort that I made last weekend may have been the most pale wort I've ever made. I'm still getting the feel of the spunding but I'll get it eventually. Nice work neddles. Cheers.

I have to say that I was a little nervous spunding it with 0.003 pts. left and having to remain faithful that it would attenuate to the same gravity as the FFT... despite the FFT fermentation having been on a stir plate at 67F and the main fermentation at 50F after transferring to a keg. But it worked. I am pretty sure I utilized as many Low-O2 procedures as my system is currently capable of on this one. So I'm going to see what this type of brewing is capable of here. All signals are pointing up so far.

That is pale! What was the grain bill? Foam looks Fluffy.

 

Yeah the foam was quite nice indeed.

 

1.048

95% Barke Pils

5% Carahell 

[Big Nake]

I have to say that I was a little nervous spunding it with 0.003 pts. left and having to remain faithful that it would attenuate to the same gravity as the FFT... despite the FFT fermentation having been on a stir plate at 67F and the main fermentation at 50F after transferring to a keg. But it worked. I am pretty sure I utilized as many Low-O2 procedures as my system is currently capable of on this one. So I'm going to see what this type of brewing is capable of here. All signals are pointing up so far.

That's good to know. I think I jumped the gun and transferred too early. I've been monitoring the spunding valve to make sure I don't have too much pressure. My guess is that I'll be at FG without an issue and if anything I may have some lively carb but hopefully not. This will take a little getting used to and the timing will clearly differ between ales and lagers and also higher gravity beers. More brewing tomorrow morning and I have everything ready to go. Cheers and nice work on the beer.

[Big Nake]

Here's my first low-O2, spunded beer. A pale ale with pale ale malt, some Munich 1 and CaraAroma, Horizon for bittering and then some late Styrian Goldings to about 30 IBU. 1469 W. Yorkshire on the yeast. Fully spunded, fermentation-purged-keg, closed-transfer. The foam is great. The carb is perfect for my first crack at natural carbonation. The clarity is coming along. I'm going to leave it alone for a couple weeks and check the clarity again. The beer is smooth and delicious.

[pkrone]

Nothing like spunded foam!   

[Big Nake]

Nothing like spunded foam!

Thanks for all the direction Pete!

[pkrone]

My pleasure!   Strong work, man!