24 replies to this topic

[Big Nake]

How are you guys purging kegs these days? Filling the keg with sanitizer and pushing it out with CO2? So connect CO2 to the IN port and then connect a line to the OUT port and send the sanitizer into a bucket or another keg, etc? If all of that is correct, then how do you transfer the beer from primary into the keg? Can I "open transfer" into that purged keg or would that defeat the purpose? I'm doing a complete overview of my processes to find ways to reduce O2 pickup and apparently just filling the keg with CO2 is not sufficient. Cheers kids.

[pkrone]

I fill my kegs completely w/ sanitizer and then push it out w/ CO2.   I do a closed transfer by having my racking cane inserted through a carboy cap and the apply CO2 to push it to the keg.  I open the relief valve on the keg while I'm filling it.   It's slow, but it's a closed system at least.  

 

I got some cool stainless steel floats to try out w/ my next batch.   The idea is to draw clear beer from the top of the keg.   I'm hoping to knock out a 10 gallon batch this weekend.   Spund both when ready and use one of the floats in one of the kegs to compare.    I hope it works as good as folks have claimed. 

[Big Nake]

Okay, thanks for that. I primary in plastic buckets so I can't transfer that way although I *do* have a way to use a carboy cap that way... I did that in case I wanted to purge a Better Bottle for secondary. I also need to look into the spunding thing again. I have the spunding valve ready to go and I know you mentioned that it's a little tricky to get the hang of it at first. I have a thread going over at lowoxygenbrewing.com and I've been told that spunding is easy. I have also had sauergut suggested as a low-O2 tool as well.

[positiveContact]

I'm not so dedicated.  I fill my kegs probably about half way with sanitizer and push that out.  the kegs often sit after that so I figure the CO2 mostly settles to the bottom.  then I rack out of an open primary through the out post on the keg and leave the PRV open to let the air and CO2 out of the keg.  when I'm done transferring I try to evacuate the head space of air as much as possible by replacing it with CO2.

[HVB]

I fill with one gallon of starsan and pressurize the keg.  I roll it around and invert for a while and then pressure transfer to another keg and then purge the empty keg a few times with CO2 using the beer out port.  I then do a closed transfer from my fermenter.

[positiveContact]

I fill with one gallon of starsan and pressurize the keg.  I roll it around and invert for a while and then pressure transfer to another keg and then purge the empty keg a few times with CO2 using the beer out port.  I then do a closed transfer from my fermenter.

 

oh yeah - I do that stuff too (pressurize and roll around first).

[neddles]

I fill my kegs completely w/ sanitizer and then push it out w/ CO2. I do a closed transfer by having my racking cane inserted through a carboy cap and the apply CO2 to push it to the keg. I open the relief valve on the keg while I'm filling it. It's slow, but it's a closed system at least.

Exactly this for both purge and fill.

[Big Nake]

This was posted on lowoxygenbrewing with regard to purging the keg with CO2 alone:



So to completely remove O2 from a keg you would have to fill it and empty it 16 times with CO2 at 25-30psi. So it sounds like the sanitizer fill + closed-push is much better.

[denny]

We did this as an experiment at EB and got some of the most definitive results we've gotten for any experiment. 

 

https://www.experime...op-aroma-better

 

https://www.experime...eer-boring-malt

 

https://www.experime...keg-etc-etc-etc

[djinkc]

This was posted on lowoxygenbrewing with regard to purging the keg with CO2 alone:



So to completely remove O2 from a keg you would have to fill it and empty it 16 times with CO2 at 25-30psi. So it sounds like the sanitizer fill + closed-push is much better.

 

Too much work for me.  I guess the beer gets poured fast enough here that O2 isn't a problem that I can detect.  I sanitize with about a quart of StarSan in a closed and somewhat pressurized keg.  Then release the SS through the out post.  After that I flood through the out post with CO2 until the pitch/sound changes.  Fill the open keg from the bottom  and purge the headspace a few times to seal the lid.

[Big Nake]

I think that one of the issues here is that it's such a blind thing... you can't see areas in your process where O2 gets picked up especially "surface intrusion" and you can't see dissolved oxygen in your wort or beer without a instrument to help you (strips or a meter) so you have to go by your tastebuds. I'm sure there are areas in my process that can be tightened up.

[SchwanzBrewer]

Ken, pushing out sanitizer and doing a closed transfer is about the best you could hope for without it costing an arm and a leg. I think you'll find that any O2 problems via packaging are minimized by that alone. If you are worried about it, do an experiment with a blonde ale or lager and do 3 batches in a row. Take tasting notes on each keg after it's ready to serve and then disconnect 2 kegs to let them sit in the ready fridge or in your cold basement. Drink the first keg within a month, put on the second, drink for a month, third repeat. Take tasting notes every week and figure out when the beer goes stale. If it's outside of 3-4 months then you're likely not going to need to do anything else.

[HVB]

While we are on this, how full do you fill your kegs?  I fill mine till I have beer coming out the "in" post.

[SchwanzBrewer]

While we are on this, how full do you fill your kegs?  I fill mine till I have beer coming out the "in" post.

 

How long does it take you to carb?

I close transfer, but I leave about a quart or so of head space (in a 15.5 gallon keg), so it carbs better.

[HVB]

How long does it take you to carb?

I close transfer, but I leave about a quart or so of head space (in a 15.5 gallon keg), so it carbs better.

Under a week at serving pressure.  I transfer partially carbonated since I bung up my fermenter and leave it at 5 psi while crashing.

[Big Nake]

I fill until I'm just short of the bottom of the IN tube. Then I chill and force-carb at 25-30psi for 48 hours. That part may change if I start to "spund" these beers.

On the topic of the closed transfer... I primary in buckets so how would I do a closed transfer from primary to keg? Someone on lowoxygenbrewing.com mentioned to use iodophor as the keg sanitizer so you don't have to worry about foaming. I have no issues filling a keg with sanitizer, connecting a CO2 tank to the "IN" tube, forcing sanitizer OUT (using some tubing or something... not sure what I would do on the OUT side) and then sending the beer to the keg but how to get the beer from primary to keg? Also, when you do a closed transfer of the beer to the keg, do you go IN through the OUT port?

[Steve Urquell]

While we are on this, how full do you fill your kegs?  I fill mine till I have beer coming out the "in" post.

Up to the "gas in" tube. I don't have problems with staling in the keg since I stopped secondarying. Some after a year even.  I'm particular about how I handle beer post ferm. I won't move a fermenter after it's started fermenting until it has been racked to a keg and purged. Transfer with a small 3/8" OD racking cane.

 

Nothing special with the pre-transfer keg purge. I pressurize it to 30psi burping it a couple times. Leave it pressurized until just before racking. Leave the PRV open after racking and run CO2 for 30secs or so to purge the headspace.

[HVB]

Just add a tri-clamp to the bucket

 

[SchwanzBrewer]

What Drez said, you should listen to him he's prelaw.

[pkrone]

Just add a tri-clamp to the bucket

 

 

That's a cool set-up.