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Can we talk about pkrone's "Trifecta anti-ox"?


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#121 pkrone

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Posted 20 December 2017 - 05:40 PM

I think that Brewer's Yeast you see in pharmacies and such is meant more as a digestive aid and such.  I'd stick w/ baker's yeast for de-ox.     

 

Did you notice less of a malt aroma when you were mashing?    That's the biggest thing I noticed from the very start.   My garage used to really smell like grain during the mash, but now, not at all.    Supposedly that's because all those nuances from the grain aren't being oxidized.    It's sure something I picked up on.  

 

I wouldn't worry about the open transfer after the boil.   As long as you're pitching active yeast right away, they'll eat up all that oxygen you added.



#122 Big Nake

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Posted 20 December 2017 - 07:00 PM

I think that Brewer's Yeast you see in pharmacies and such is meant more as a digestive aid and such.  I'd stick w/ baker's yeast for de-ox.     
 
Did you notice less of a malt aroma when you were mashing?    That's the biggest thing I noticed from the very start.   My garage used to really smell like grain during the mash, but now, not at all.    Supposedly that's because all those nuances from the grain aren't being oxidized.    It's sure something I picked up on.  
 
I wouldn't worry about the open transfer after the boil.   As long as you're pitching active yeast right away, they'll eat up all that oxygen you added.

Okay, good stuff. I found a 115g jar of Red Star active baking yeast that looks like it should be good for 11 batches of beer. On the aroma part... I just seem to be getting some yeasty aroma from the airlock right now and it smells a lot like the aroma I was getting from the strike water that had the yeast and sugar in it. Maybe it's my imagination.

#123 Big Nake

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Posted 22 December 2017 - 07:45 AM

Another question: If I use the yeast+water trick to lower O2 in my strike and sparge water and it takes two hours or so to reach a good level, is it okay to let that water sit over night or does that defeat the purpose because it will absorb more O2 in that time? I'm considering brewing tomorrow but being more prepared and having the water prepared tonight. Thoughts?

#124 HVB

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Posted 22 December 2017 - 09:33 AM

Another question: If I use the yeast+water trick to lower O2 in my strike and sparge water and it takes two hours or so to reach a good level, is it okay to let that water sit over night or does that defeat the purpose because it will absorb more O2 in that time? I'm considering brewing tomorrow but being more prepared and having the water prepared tonight. Thoughts?

Pretty sure that defeats the purpose.  I think after the 2 hours the DO level will increase.



#125 Big Nake

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Posted 22 December 2017 - 09:57 AM

Pretty sure that defeats the purpose.  I think after the 2 hours the DO level will increase.

Really. Okay then I could filter tonight and leave the water inside so the temp is okay and then add the yeast & sugar early in the morning and then start 2 hours later. I wondered if the pot and bucket had lids on them that it might be okay but for anyone planning on using this method it should be made clear that the 2 hour timing needs some structure. I'm fine with it but it might delay the brewday a bit and my wife is already giving me the fisheye because it's December 23rd and I want to make beer. Hey man, what can I say? I got a weakness for the suds. :lol: Thanks Drez.

#126 pkrone

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Posted 22 December 2017 - 04:58 PM

Yeah,  2 hrs is about the max de-ox and it gradually creeps back in.  Overnight is probably too long.  But I don't worry about the time between mash it and sparging as it's not that long and I put a CO2 blanket over the sparge water.    



#127 Genesee Ted

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Posted 22 December 2017 - 05:40 PM

I haven’t kept up. Is there an actual science behind this yet?

As a funny aside, I see folks making mash caps out of aluminum foil. Remember when aluminum was the devil? Lol

#128 pkrone

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Posted 22 December 2017 - 05:55 PM

I haven’t kept up. Is there an actual science behind this yet?

As a funny aside, I see folks making mash caps out of aluminum foil. Remember when aluminum was the devil? Lol

Yes, there's science.   Aluminum in the short term (a 90 minute mash) is ok.  Not so good in the long term.



#129 Genesee Ted

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Posted 22 December 2017 - 06:32 PM

I’m really interested in these studies, like I said, I haven’t kept up too much other than cursory. Do you have any links?

#130 pkrone

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Posted 22 December 2017 - 08:21 PM

www.lowoxygenbrewing.com 



#131 Genesee Ted

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Posted 23 December 2017 - 11:43 AM

I’m going to read all of that. Thanks for the link!

#132 Big Nake

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Posted 23 December 2017 - 12:07 PM

Doob: There have been a number of threads on OUR site and I feel like there is a lot but I also feel like it's been distilled a little bit and I also think that there is a good amount of counter-discussion as well. It's not just breathless pro-low-O2 stuff. That said, the forum in pkrone's link has more of a chill vibe than some of the others. There is stuff on AHA too but there is quite a bit of content there so be prepared for some reading.

#133 Genesee Ted

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Posted 23 December 2017 - 02:49 PM

Yeah. When the whole thing popped up I was a bit intrigued by it all. I’m fascinated by the discussions because, duh.... I’m kind of a brewing geek :)

From what I have been reading though, I’m not seeing any real studies done by brewing scientists, mostly just anecdotal claims of better beer. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not discounting any of this. Plenty of brewing knowledge has come about prior to these types of in depth research, I was just curious as to if Siebel or Leuven have dug into it at all.

#134 neddles

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Posted 23 December 2017 - 02:53 PM

Yeah. When the whole thing popped up I was a bit intrigued by it all. I’m fascinated by the discussions because, duh.... I’m kind of a brewing geek :)

From what I have been reading though, I’m not seeing any real studies done by brewing scientists, mostly just anecdotal claims of better beer. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not discounting any of this. Plenty of brewing knowledge has come about prior to these types of in depth research, I was just curious as to if Siebel or Leuven have dug into it at all.

 

http://www.lowoxygen...ing-references/



#135 Genesee Ted

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Posted 23 December 2017 - 05:31 PM

:frank:

#136 Big Nake

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Posted 23 December 2017 - 08:50 PM

There are a lot of references there. I clicked on one and it was a paper from 1972 talking about how O2 pickup needed to be reduced as much as possible and how 50-60% of beer available to consumers was heavily oxidized and how brewers owed it to their customers to make better beer. That was just ONE of a very long list of links available there. But after the low-O2 thing came up recently there was quite a bit of backlash from people saying that reducing O2 pickup has not been a big priority in brewing so there must not be much relevance (I'm paraphrasing). I admit that in my 20 years of homebrewing I didn't hear about the steps to reduce O2 pickup like we're hearing now. All that said, if it makes better beer then I'm listening. :D

#137 Genesee Ted

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Posted 24 December 2017 - 04:18 PM

Well, I think more of the line of thinking was traditionally, oxidation wasn’t considered to be an issue on the hot side, because the yeast scavenge the oxygen during fermentation. I don’t think anyone would claim that it doesn’t affect beer after that. I could imagine that in 1972 that packaging lines didn’t put a high priority on minimizing DO. Especially considering that no one seemed to care how beer tasted, it was just an alcohol delivery vehicle.


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