37 replies to this topic

[Steve Urquell]

Doing this one in the morning to try out MJ M76. I kept it simple so the malt wouldn't get in the way of yeast flavors.

 

7gals/1.050, 31 IBUs

 

Mash: 145F/20mins, 160F/40 mins

 

1g/1g CaSO4, 4g/4g CaCl2 mash/sparge

 

9lb Castle pils

2lb Castle Pale Ale

1lb CaraFoam

4oz acid malt

 

.8 oz Aramis @60

1oz Tradition @30

1 oz Spalt Select @10

[Steve Urquell]

Going well. Mash temps 143F/20min with pH 5.0, 158F/40min with pH 5.2. About to runoff. I hope I don't have a repeat of the pastry flour fiasco lol.

[Poptop]

Please share how the MJ performed for you. Also... Aramis... Such a fantastic aroma and flavor

[Big Nake]

Definitely keep us posted on the M76 both 'activity'-wise and also aroma-wise. If it truly is an offshoot of 2206 I'm not sure that I would recognize it, personally. With 2124, 2308 and Omega Bayern... I have not used 2206 in many moons. Btw... how many packs of M76 did you use and did you rehydrate, sprinkle, make an actual starter or what? Finally, thanks for reminding me that I had this in my yeast stash. The other day when I was making a starter for the Omega West Coast I was thinking about a "Plan B" in case the West Coast looked or smelled off. I have some WL840 American Lager in my stash and figured that instead of throwing away the starter I would use it for the 840 thinking it was the only other yeast I had left... but I have this M76 and should use it at some point. Cheers.

[Steve Urquell]

Definitely keep us posted on the M76 both 'activity'-wise and also aroma-wise. If it truly is an offshoot of 2206 I'm not sure that I would recognize it, personally. With 2124, 2308 and Omega Bayern... I have not used 2206 in many moons. Btw... how many packs of M76 did you use and did you rehydrate, sprinkle, make an actual starter or what? Finally, thanks for reminding me that I had this in my yeast stash. The other day when I was making a starter for the Omega West Coast I was thinking about a "Plan B" in case the West Coast looked or smelled off. I have some WL840 American Lager in my stash and figured that instead of throwing away the starter I would use it for the 840 thinking it was the only other yeast I had left... but I have this M76 and should use it at some point. Cheers.

1 pack is rehydrating now as the 1 gal drauflassen starter volume is chilling in the frezer. I used a pinch of Wyeast nutrient in the starter volume and will spin it on the plate after pitching for about 3hrs then turn it off so as not to oxidize it. I'll probably pitch tomorrow if the drauflassen starter is rocking. If not I'll wait till it is.

As far as this being similar to another strain, we'll find out. Some people have posted about MJ M84 Bohemian lager being W34/2124 but it definitely isn't so no telling what this crosses to. I may bottle up some for you when it's done if I can't decipher its lineage. If I do I'll throw in a bottle of CZ pils fermented with M84 as well.

[Big Nake]

1 pack is rehydrating now as the 1 gal drauflassen starter volume is chilling in the frezer. I used a pinch of Wyeast nutrient in the starter volume and will spin it on the plate after pitching for about 3hrs then turn it off so as not to oxidize it. I'll probably pitch tomorrow if the drauflassen starter is rocking. If not I'll wait till it is.

As far as this being similar to another strain, we'll find out. Some people have posted about MJ M84 Bohemian lager being W34/2124 but it definitely isn't so no telling what this crosses to. I may bottle up some for you when it's done if I can't decipher its lineage. If I do I'll throw in a bottle of CZ pils fermented with M84 as well.

Oh so M84 is NOT 2124/3470? I had heard that as well but never used M84 so I don't know. Have you used 3470 and if so does it seem like 2124? Maybe something magical will happen and M76 is really the dry version of Omega Bayern. If that happens, look out world!

[Steve Urquell]

Oh so M84 is NOT 2124/3470? I had heard that as well but never used M84 so I don't know. Have you used 3470 and if so does it seem like 2124? Maybe something magical will happen and M76 is really the dry version of Omega Bayern. If that happens, look out world!

Yeah, M84 is nothing like 34/70 or 2124. I don't know aht M84 is like TBH.  I think 2nd gen 34/70 tastes like 2124. I use 34/70 all the time.  I'd guess I've done dozens of batches with it over the years. Just finishing a run with it where I used it for a gold lager, IPL, and the Blue Moon clone. Here's a pic of 1/2 of the harvest from the IPL.

 

I'l probably retire the 34/70 just b/c I'll be running this M76 for the next year/8 batches or so to get a feel for it.

[Big Nake]

I always get a bit concerned when someone says "this yeast is the same as that yeast" because it often seems wrong. The best you can do in that situation is try it for yourself and see how you like it. It seems like the more strains I try, the more I end up sticking with the ones I like because I recognize the flavor contributions from the yeast and I want that flavor to be something that I really like. 2308, 2124 and Bayern do that for me but they do different things. At some point I was using 2206 and eventually I just decided that it wasn't doing much for me. 2278 Czech is similar... I like it but I could just use 2124 and be done with it. I just finished a run with S-189 and I agree with one of your observations... it excels in maltier beers and it's not quite as good in hoppy beers. Hard to explain but that's my take. Cheers and good luck with the M76. Keep us posted.

[Steve Urquell]

Yep. The only one I'm confident on saying is W34 and 2124 cuz I've had them in the same recipe side by side. I have a similar view on yeasts with character as well. W34 is so distinctive I can pick its flavor out aside from the malt and hops. When you cant you have to fall back on what it does for the malt and hops. I couldn't pick out S-189 but like what it did for my malty beers. 2278 falls into that category as well as far as not being distinctive/tastable/smellable.

M84 is very distinctive and easily picked out by flavor/ester/aroma and I like it in CZ lager. I bottle condition a few beers on each batch. Those don't get gelled and I was enjoying the M84 character neofiltro (unfiltered/hazy) in the bottles.

I don't like M84 in German styles as I feel it is not clean enough so hoping M76 is clean but distinctive enough to be picked out in the finished beer.

[BlKtRe]

Interested in the MJ. 

[Big Nake]

Interested in the MJ.

Available on Amazon now. I think that's where I got my M76. Careful though... a number of people have mentioned that it's sloooooow to start.

Speaking of which: How do you guys feel about making an actual starter for the MJs? I realize that's pretty much what Chils is doing with his drauflassen routine but what about an actual flask starter, maybe 1L, 3-4 ounces of DME, some O2, a spin, etc. Never done that for a dry yeast and seems unnecessary but I've had yeast start slow before and I don't care for it.

[Steve Urquell]

Available on Amazon now. I think that's where I got my M76. Careful though... a number of people have mentioned that it's sloooooow to start.

Speaking of which: How do you guys feel about making an actual starter for the MJs? I realize that's pretty much what Chils is doing with his drauflassen routine but what about an actual flask starter, maybe 1L, 3-4 ounces of DME, some O2, a spin, etc. Never done that for a dry yeast and seems unnecessary but I've had yeast start slow before and I don't care for it.

I hope this starts better than M84 cuz it is a slow bee-yotch. I've always wondered about the whole mantra of "Don't make a starter or you'll use up the energy reserves stored in it from the producer"

 

Speaking of dry lager yeast: I feel if this was correct then the stuff would start faster. I've yet to see these "reserves" kick in and get slow starts pitched dry even when using 2 packs. I know that making a starter builds healthy yeast and it has been shown that active yeast is healthier than dormant yeast. So, starter up Ken!

 

BTW, I only use 1 pack with the drauflassen technique and get rapid starts and fast clean ferments so it saves me money.

[pkrone]

I pitch 3 packs of dry lager yeast into 5 gallons or wort.   I don't make a started or hydrate it.  I don't oxygenate the wort either.   I also pitch at fermentation temp (50). 

[Steve Urquell]

Great news! The yeast was pitched to the 1 gal drauflassen volume at 10:30 am at 54F and spun on the plate for 3 hrs as it chilled to 52F. It had small bubbles at the top after I stopped the plate and now has krausen covering 1/2 the top.

It will be rocking when I pitch it to the rest of the 7 gal batch tomorrow. Fastest start I've had with MJ yeast.

[Steve Urquell]

OK, I racked the clear wort off the trub last night around 7PM and pitched the drauflassen volume to the main batch. Total was 6.75gals. Healthy starter activity as good as any new pitch I've done. smelled nice as well. I have slow airlock activity this morning. This is much better than MJ M84 which usually needs another day to reach this level of activity.

 

[Big Nake]

Okay, good news. Give us an indication of the aroma.

I was thinking about the idea of the starter. If I were to make a small starter for it and just leave it as a SNS version, that's not really that different than doing a drauflassen, right? You're taking X amount of your batch's wort, pitching the yeast and then adding that to the main batch once it's active. I would do the same only with starter wort created from DME. Maybe I'll do that when it's time to get this yeast in action and I'll decide then if I should add 1 pack to the starter or 2. With pkrone saying three packs into 5 gallons w/o a starter, maybe I'll use 2 packs but... I hate to waste a pack if one is enough.

[Steve Urquell]

Okay, good news. Give us an indication of the aroma.

I was thinking about the idea of the starter. If I were to make a small starter for it and just leave it as a SNS version, that's not really that different than doing a drauflassen, right? You're taking X amount of your batch's wort, pitching the yeast and then adding that to the main batch once it's active. I would do the same only with starter wort created from DME. Maybe I'll do that when it's time to get this yeast in action and I'll decide then if I should add 1 pack to the starter or 2. With pkrone saying three packs into 5 gallons w/o a starter, maybe I'll use 2 packs but... I hate to waste a pack if one is enough.

Aroma was yeasty but nothing I could put a finger on--def was not similar to W34/70. I'd give the SNS thing a try with 1 pack of dry yeast. Based on my observations of fermentation health of drauflassen with 1 pack of dry yeast having quicker starts, finishes, and never having a yeast related issue vs 2 packs pitched reyhdrated with (sometimes extremely) slow or no starts until temp raised above lager temps after several days.

 

Keep in mind I'm getting great results on 7 gallon batches with 1 pack of yeast.

[Poptop]

Okay, good news. Give us an indication of the aroma.

I was thinking about the idea of the starter. If I were to make a small starter for it and just leave it as a SNS version, that's not really that different than doing a drauflassen, right? You're taking X amount of your batch's wort, pitching the yeast and then adding that to the main batch once it's active. I would do the same only with starter wort created from DME. Maybe I'll do that when it's time to get this yeast in action and I'll decide then if I should add 1 pack to the starter or 2. With pkrone saying three packs into 5 gallons w/o a starter, maybe I'll use 2 packs but... I hate to waste a pack if one is enough.

 
The old proverbial killing two beers with one stone sorta kinda thingy 

[Big Nake]

Aroma was yeasty but nothing I could put a finger on--def was not similar to W34/70. I'd give the SNS thing a try with 1 pack of dry yeast. Based on my observations of fermentation health of drauflassen with 1 pack of dry yeast having quicker starts, finishes, and never having a yeast related issue vs 2 packs pitched reyhdrated with (sometimes extremely) slow or no starts until temp raised above lager temps after several days.
 
Keep in mind I'm getting great results on 7 gallon batches with 1 pack of yeast.

Okay, good stuff. Also, I did a little Googling and see this:

M76
Attenuation: High
Flocculation: Medium
Temp range: 45-57°

2206
Attenuation: 73-77%
Flocculation: Med-High
Temp range: 46-58°

Those values seem close enough that they could be the same yeast. I'm not sure why I'm so interested in that but if nothing else it would help me pick a style to make. Also... I'm fine with the idea of making a starter (maybe 1L in this case) with one pack of the M76 and pitching it when it's active into a 5% lager. I'm currently playing with two ale yeast strains so it may be sometime after the first of the year when I do this but I like the idea and when I look at the styles that 2206 is good for on the Wyeast site, the list is VERY long and even includes styles I never heard of like German Leichtbier (sp?). Cheers. I mean Prost.

EDIT: I see that Leichtbier is a low-ABV gold lager in Germany. It's Germany's Bud Light... if there was such a thing.

[Steve Urquell]

Okay, good stuff. Also, I did a little Googling and see this:

M76
Attenuation: High
Flocculation: Medium
Temp range: 45-57°

2206
Attenuation: 73-77%
Flocculation: Med-High
Temp range: 46-58°

Those values seem close enough that they could be the same yeast. I'm not sure why I'm so interested in that but if nothing else it would help me pick a style to make. Also... I'm fine with the idea of making a starter (maybe 1L in this case) with one pack of the M76 and pitching it when it's active into a 5% lager. I'm currently playing with two ale yeast strains so it may be sometime after the first of the year when I do this but I like the idea and when I look at the styles that 2206 is good for on the Wyeast site, the list is VERY long and even includes styles I never heard of like German Leichtbier (sp?). Cheers. I mean Prost.

EDIT: I see that Leichtbier is a low-ABV gold lager in Germany. It's Germany's Bud Light... if there was such a thing.

Marshall Schott did a Beerxperiment using M76 but didn't say much about the flavor other than Gambrinus malt left it tasting like white grape. Dumbass should have know better than to use Canadian metric malt. He even weighed it in pounds.

 

http://brulosophy.co...riment-results/

"I contacted Mangrove Jack’s seeking the source of this strain, which was fruitless though they did confirm M76 is a traditional lager yeast intended to be fermented at cool temperatures."

Edited by Steve Urquell, 17 November 2017 - 07:58 AM.