10 replies to this topic

[Big Nake]

Specifically: Do you adjust your grist when you make a hoppier beer? For awhile there was an APA/IPA grist made of a combination of pale ale malt and wheat. The thought was that the wheat would cut down on the maltiness a bit and let the hops shine through more. I have used a grist like that many times but the question is whether a beer made with a less-malty grist and a good amount of hops results in a beer that is more like hop tea. I don't encounter this much because I don't make hoppy beers but I wonder what you hopheads do in this situation. I also wonder if it could even come down to something like the weather... in the summer you might prefer a lighter-bodied beer even if it had more hops in it and in the cooler weather a deeper and more robust beer is better. I have some hoppier ales coming up and on one I had pale ale malt (Swaen, of which I have an entire 55lb sack) and wheat pretty much split down the middle. I'm thinking now that I might lean those beers more in favor of the pale ale malt... 60/40, 70/30, etc. Thoughts?

[matt6150]

I think it really depends on what you are going after. I know I like at least some body and malt in hoppy beers, definitely not hop tea.

[matt6150]

I have made hoppy beers with 100% Golden Promise and also Great Western Pale malt and thought those beers to have a perfect amount of maltiness. So maybe the Swaen could do the same.

[Big Nake]

I should mention that some amount of crystal (CaraRuby, CaraVienne, maybe CaraMunich) usually goes into the grist as well but not much... maybe 6-8 ounces in 5 gallons.
 

I have made hoppy beers with 100% Golden Promise and also Great Western Pale malt and thought those beers to have a perfect amount of maltiness. So maybe the Swaen could do the same.

I think so too. I don't have a good feel for this malt yet because I have never used it (last weekend was the first time, in an English Bitter). I think I'll use a higher percentage of the pale ale malt and see what this malt will do. I plan to make a blonde ale with it at some point and that might show me more if I keep the recipe simple.

[matt6150]

Maybe make the blonde ale first with 100% Swaen and see what you think of it.

[Bklmt2000]

My pale ales are 10lb of pale malt (pale ale, Pils, or plain 2-row), plus some wheat and some crystal (from 10L-60-L), usually 0.5 lb of each.

 

IPAs get the same grain bill + 2 lbs of Munich.

 

IMO, hoppy beers need some malt character to avoid being too one-dimensional.  Agree with Matt that hop tea is no bueno. 

 

The hops are the star of the show in pale ales/IPAs, but the malt should at least be a Best Supprting Actor.

[Poptop]

In the spirit crushing heat of south Florida, lighter and highly quaffable beers are my mainstay. I tend to make more hop forward maltier beers in the... ahem... "cooler" months. For example next up to bat will be Kolsch and then sometime in December, an amber with healthy late doses of Amarillo and Mosaic. Most all of my beers have some Munich or Vienna. I don't do wheat much.

[Big Nake]

Is it fair to say that the maltiness should increase as the hops increase or is that too simplistic?

[Bklmt2000]

Is it fair to say that the maltiness should increase as the hops increase or is that too simplistic?

 

Lots of factors at work. 

 

If you're talking about a hop-foward beer like APA/IPA, etc., then increasing the maltiness could interfere with the hop character that is trying to be increased/intensified.  For those types of beers, the malt character should (IMO) be noticeable, but more as a support for the showcasing of the hops.

 

Some beers have too little malt character to support the hop profile; Bell's 2-Hearted Ale is an example.

 

Just my 2 cents.

[denny]

Specifically: Do you adjust your grist when you make a hoppier beer? For awhile there was an APA/IPA grist made of a combination of pale ale malt and wheat. The thought was that the wheat would cut down on the maltiness a bit and let the hops shine through more. I have used a grist like that many times but the question is whether a beer made with a less-malty grist and a good amount of hops results in a beer that is more like hop tea. I don't encounter this much because I don't make hoppy beers but I wonder what you hopheads do in this situation. I also wonder if it could even come down to something like the weather... in the summer you might prefer a lighter-bodied beer even if it had more hops in it and in the cooler weather a deeper and more robust beer is better. I have some hoppier ales coming up and on one I had pale ale malt (Swaen, of which I have an entire 55lb sack) and wheat pretty much split down the middle. I'm thinking now that I might lean those beers more in favor of the pale ale malt... 60/40, 70/30, etc. Thoughts?

 

I adjust for my flavor objective.  But I don't purposely try to reduce their maltiness in hoppy beers.  If anything, the opposite.

[Big Nake]

I realize that the water plays a role... a lot of sulfate = crisper/thinner-tasting, more chloride accentuates fullness, etc. Yeast attenuation plays a role too... lower attenuation creates more of a malty character, etc. This is where 'knowing your malts' really comes into play and I admit that I have been changing my malts like people change their underwear. Rahr Pale Ale has some good depth and I know how to get it to balance. I don't know about this Swaen Pale Ale malt yet. I chewed a few kernels last weekend and it didn't seem quite as deep and rich as Rahr Pale Ale so I should follow that.