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#21 denny

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Posted 25 September 2017 - 11:39 AM

Yes. I have that one and the blackberry version from Olive Nation. Good but not the same.

 

Cool



#22 DieselGopher

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Posted 25 September 2017 - 06:26 PM

My wife proclaims "I don't like beer" but LOVES fruit beers AND sours. I made a Blushing Monk clone that I was very happy with, and it was well received. But it was 11%, and dangerous. I set to work to make something very raspberry but more quaffable. I don't have the recipe handy (I'm on the road) but it's like you described, a very bland ale to begin with. I use one can of raspberry purée in primary, same cans Northern sells for meads/fruit wines. Primary for a week, then into the fridge for a week to cold crash. Transfer to secondary, with a second can of purée, and the into the celler at about 60 or so. It WILL deferment a bit, no matter what I do, but with only a little yeast and a whole other can of raspberry, the flavor stays pretty well. Beer is typically 4.5-5% potential, rough math (in-exact for sure) it ends between 5-5.5% and is still very raspberry forward.

#23 Big Nake

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Posted 28 September 2017 - 02:47 PM

I think I will make this beer and assume a 4-gallon batch which will leave room for the fruit. I'm going to make the beer low-ABV to start assuming that the fermentation of the fruit sugars will boost the ABV a little bit. I have a larger (8 gallon) fermenter than I'll use since it has extra room in it. When the fermentation is done I'll add the strained raspberry juice which will kick the fermentation back up. Then I will backsweeten the beer with stevia that has been boiled in some water. I have absolutely no idea how much stevia to use so I'll just start with some amount, test and adjust from there. This may get very messy but the hope would be to get the process down so that I can make it with my eyes closed at some point.

#24 Big Nake

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Posted 01 October 2017 - 07:29 AM

The more I think about this, the more sense it makes to just kill the yeast and screw the idea of back-sweetening. Can someone give me very specific instructions for this? I have never done it so you may have to explain it like I'm 4 years old. :D

#25 Genesee Ted

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 09:21 AM

I think you should at least consider doing a kettle sour. Maybe don't take it to a super low pH but you'll want that tart in there or the backsweetening will make it cloying. I don't think raspberries will provide enough tartness.

I'm pretty sure they use lactose, that's what I'd use anyway. I don't care for stevia. But I think it's probably used by other brewers. For the raspberries, I'd personally shoot for 2-3 lbs per gallon if you can. Oregon fruit purée is super easy.

This stuff also kicks ass, I'm not sure how it compares price wise https://www.gourmetf...AyABEgL6pfD_BwE

Just add it at the end of primary.

#26 Big Nake

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 09:50 AM

I think a standard non-sour beer plus the berries and some amount of lactose or stevia could work. I don't want there to be a secondary fermentation so it would be great to find a convenient way to kill the yeast.

#27 Big Nake

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 11:56 AM

Brother: Thanks for that. I would need to head over to the LHBS for lactose (if I decide to use it) so I could also pick up campden tablets. If I chose to use it, how and when? Dissolve it in boiling water? Just drop it into primary at the end of fermentation? How many tablets to make sure the yeast was neutralized? Any side-effects of using it in terms of beer flavor, etc? I kind of like this approach:

1. Brew the beer with some amount of crystal and maybe with a higher mash temp and a lower-attenuating yeast (I have some 1469 and also some S-04 which I wouldn't mind killing :D)
2. Kill the yeast
3. Process the berries in whatever fashion I decide and add the juice to the primary (this would be an 8-gallon primary to make sure there is room)
4. Taste the beer and see how it is. If there is no secondary fermentation then the beer will not dry out like crazy. If the berries have made the flavor too tart, add lactose until the balance is better.

#28 Poptop

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 12:00 PM

After digging into that Wiki, it stated that Campden needs potassium sorbate too. That's why I pulled my response. I was always under the assumption that Campden alone was a killer. However it doesn't seem like to difficult a step.

#29 Poptop

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 12:04 PM

On a very very side note, I followed Biktre's tincture method for oranges and I have 12 ounces of extra strength tincture sitting on my kitchen counter. It is as tanterin'y as tangerine can get. Maybe you can do something similar.

Edited by Steppedonapoptop, 03 October 2017 - 12:05 PM.


#30 denny

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 12:40 PM

After digging into that Wiki, it stated that Campden needs potassium sorbate too. That's why I pulled my response. I was always under the assumption that Campden alone was a killer. However it doesn't seem like to difficult a step.

 

Nope, campden won't do it.



#31 Big Nake

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 12:43 PM

So a combination of potassium sorbate & campden? Was there something about sodium metabisulfate (SMB) too?

#32 MyaCullen

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 09:25 PM

So a combination of potassium sorbate & campden? Was there something about sodium metabisulfate (SMB) too?

campden is pill form sulfate

 

 

in order for the sorbate to knock out the yeast it needs to have the sulfate and alcohol needs to be present, you'll need all three to knock out the yeast, but it won't permanently kill it unless you have a fairly high alcohol percentage, which is the knock against sorbating beer, it will take months under refrigeration for any re-fermentation though

 

if you go the sorbate, sulfate route, why bother with lactose or stevia?



#33 BrewerGeorge

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 10:30 PM

Ken, if you really want this, forget the sorbate/sulfate route and just get a plate filter.  They're not that expensive and you have the CO2 to push things around.

 

ETA: $50-60 Bucks.



#34 MyaCullen

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 10:39 PM

Ken, if you really want this, forget the sorbate/sulfate route and just get a plate filter.  They're not that expensive and you have the CO2 to push things around.

 

ETA: $50-60 Bucks.

gonna need to filter 2-3 times with successively finer pads to get down to sterile, though you could gel first and save the initial rough filter step



#35 Poptop

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Posted 04 October 2017 - 05:15 AM

Perhaps extract ain't lookin so bad no?

#36 Big Nake

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Posted 04 October 2017 - 06:14 AM

if you go the sorbate, sulfate route, why bother with lactose or stevia?

I would only do that if the tartness of the fruit (and the amount of fruit) made the beer overly tart and if the resulting beer didn't have enough sweetness to counter it.

Ken, if you really want this, forget the sorbate/sulfate route and just get a plate filter.  They're not that expensive and you have the CO2 to push things around.

Yeah, I probably wouldn't do that. I actually bought a plate filter years ago and never took it out of the box. A brewing bud of mine thought he might have a yeast allergy so I gifted the filter to him so he could try to get the yeast out of his beer after fermentation.

Perhaps extract ain't lookin so bad no?

Only if there was one that I hadn't tried. Some of the extracts are passable and some are even decent but many are just plain bad.

Guys, thanks for the replies. I'll noodle with it some more and see what I come up with.

#37 Poptop

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Posted 04 October 2017 - 06:23 AM

How about Chambord? I'm just thinking out loud man, that's all.

#38 Big Nake

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Posted 04 October 2017 - 06:35 AM

How about Chambord? I'm just thinking out loud man, that's all.

I think it hit me when I tasted that fresh, natural raspberry flavor in the Lindeman's. I realized that what I was making with the McCormick extract was inferior. If you guys think that the yeast would never be out of the picture with the beer being COLD or without killing it or filtering it then the only option is to allow the yeast to dine on the sugars from the raspberries and then fire up the lactose or stevia. I still say that if the beer was COLD (< 35°) that the ale yeast would be very sluggish and that it would take a very long time for any fermentation to happen. The issue is that this beer would be taking up one of my taps and could possibly be there for awhile since I don't envision chugging raspberry beer until it's gone. I wouldn't be able to bottle it without the bottles exploding either.

#39 denny

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Posted 04 October 2017 - 08:54 AM

So a combination of potassium sorbate & campden? Was there something about sodium metabisulfate (SMB) too?

 

Campden is a sulfite, either sodium or potassium.


I think it hit me when I tasted that fresh, natural raspberry flavor in the Lindeman's. I realized that what I was making with the McCormick extract was inferior. If you guys think that the yeast would never be out of the picture with the beer being COLD or without killing it or filtering it then the only option is to allow the yeast to dine on the sugars from the raspberries and then fire up the lactose or stevia. I still say that if the beer was COLD (< 35°) that the ale yeast would be very sluggish and that it would take a very long time for any fermentation to happen. The issue is that this beer would be taking up one of my taps and could possibly be there for awhile since I don't envision chugging raspberry beer until it's gone. I wouldn't be able to bottle it without the bottles exploding either.

 

AFAIK, they use extract.



#40 Big Nake

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Posted 04 October 2017 - 08:56 AM

AFAIK, they use extract.

If that's true it must be some outrageously fantastic extract.

Maybe what I'll do is try the OliveNation stuff again and add more than I have been adding. I typically use only about an ounce of raspberry extract (the McCormick stuff... not the same as the LHBS stuff) in 5 gallons. Maybe I need to use the OliveNation raspberry and use more... like the whole 4oz bottle.


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