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#1 BrewerGeorge

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 05:47 AM

Is anybody conditioning their grain?

 

I tried it yesterday in an effort to keep dust down.  Turns out that what I thought were the "intact hulls" that conditioning is supposed to engender were actually "poorly cracked" and my mash efficiency was only about 60%.

 

Now, I'm still screwing around with my mill setup, but I got 78% last weekend using the drill to drive it and a single mash infusion, which is what I did yesterday.  But this time was much worse.

 

Am I supposed to close the mill up more when conditioning the grain?



#2 HVB

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 06:18 AM

I think Neddles does and Ken tried it as well.  Something I have thought about doing but just never got around to.  Hit 88% this weekend with a BIAB pils and I am happy with that.



#3 BrewerGeorge

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 06:23 AM

I wasn't trying to improve efficiency, just thought it might keep dust down.  Part of the downside of having attached the mill to my cart is the dust.



#4 Big Nake

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 06:25 AM

I am doing it. I have a spray bottle and I mist the grain with distilled water and then mix everything up, spray, mix, spray, mix, etc. What I found was that I needed to very slightly increase the gap on the mill. I'm not sure if the kernels expand a little with the water or if the moisture causes the mill to slip but I was having trouble with the grain feeding through the rollers. Also, because of the moisture, your rollers will begin to get caked up with schputz which will also cause things to get gummed up and not feed through the rollers. So my mill went from something like .38 to .41 (I used feeler gauges to adjust it) and I have to make sure my mill gets a relatively thorough cleaning or else my rollers will just spin without feeding. Also, I have not checked efficiency since I started brewing in the mid-1950s ( :lol:) so I have no idea what any of that did to my efficiency. It does cut down on dust and is supposed to cut down on tannins because you're not SHREDDING the husks as much as you would if the grain was dry.

#5 HVB

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 06:26 AM

I wasn't trying to improve efficiency, just thought it might keep dust down.  Part of the downside of having attached the mill to my cart is the dust.

agh, did not pick up on that, need more caffeine! 

 

I can see that being an issue.



#6 neddles

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 06:42 AM

Yep I do it. It reduces dust greatly. I also see a slightly faster lauter from my BIAB bag. I did not have any issues with my rollers so I made no adjustments when I switched to conditioning and my efficiency stayed the same. 

 

 

I think Neddles does and Ken tried it as well.  Something I have thought about doing but just never got around to.  Hit 88% this weekend with a BIAB pils and I am happy with that.

 

Session beer. 



#7 positiveContact

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 06:43 AM

I am doing it. I have a spray bottle and I mist the grain with distilled water and then mix everything up, spray, mix, spray, mix, etc. What I found was that I needed to very slightly increase the gap on the mill. I'm not sure if the kernels expand a little with the water or if the moisture causes the mill to slip but I was having trouble with the grain feeding through the rollers. Also, because of the moisture, your rollers will begin to get caked up with schputz which will also cause things to get gummed up and not feed through the rollers. So my mill went from something like .38 to .41 (I used feeler gauges to adjust it) and I have to make sure my mill gets a relatively thorough cleaning or else my rollers will just spin without feeding. Also, I have not checked efficiency since I started brewing in the mid-1950s ( :lol:) so I have no idea what any of that did to my efficiency. It does cut down on dust and is supposed to cut down on tannins because you're not SHREDDING the husks as much as you would if the grain was dry.

 

I didn't expect that there would be that many catches to this process.  I thought if it was gumming up the mill you were adding too much water.  Is that not right?

 

I only clean my mill about 1-2 times/year (I don't condition).



#8 HVB

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 06:45 AM


Session beer. 

Sure, but previously this would still have been a 70% beer.



#9 neddles

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 06:50 AM

I didn't expect that there would be that many catches to this process.  I thought if it was gumming up the mill you were adding too much water.  Is that not right?

 

 

Cant speak to Ken's mill but mine is cleaner with conditioning than without. I have never seen any gumminess or caked flour on the rollers or anywhere else. I use about 8ml/# of grist.

 

Sure, but previously this would still have been a 70% beer.

 

Right, I remember that. Was recognizing the nature of BIAB (and, I assume, no-sparge brewing in general) in that the efficiency and the OG are a sliding scale.



#10 BrewerGeorge

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 07:01 AM

Cant speak to Ken's mill but mine is cleaner with conditioning than without. I have never seen any gumminess or caked flour on the rollers or anywhere else. I use about 8ml/# of grist.

...

I used 2%, which is pretty much 9 ml/lb.

 

It was definitely undercrushed.  It just didn't look right at the end.  You know that grayish protein layer?  Not there.  I just need to tighten up the mill and commit to using the hand crank.  The drill is too variable - and besides it was beginning to smell hot yesterday.  IIRC from years ago, I had to open the mill gap when I motorized it with the stepper motor.  Time to adjust it.



#11 neddles

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 07:05 AM

I used 2%, which is pretty much 9 ml/lb.

 

It was definitely undercrushed.  It just didn't look right at the end.  You know that grayish protein layer?  Not there.  I just need to tighten up the mill and commit to using the hand crank.  The drill is too variable - and besides it was beginning to smell hot yesterday.  IIRC from years ago, I had to open the mill gap when I motorized it with the stepper motor.  Time to adjust it.

 

I know that when I condition the malt there is a certain percentage of kernels that don't appear to be crushed at all. However, if I open the husk the inside is always broken up.

 

What greyish protein layer? 



#12 Big Nake

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 07:08 AM

I don't measure the water... I just go by feel. I have the grain in a bucket and I put a pair of gloves on and just mix it up. If I see dry grain, I spritz it again and mix. It's very possible that I add more water than is advised. I know that before I conditioned my mill would just be super dusty after using it and I could clean it off with a leaf blower. Now it's stickier and requires a blast with the hose to clean it.

#13 BrewerGeorge

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 07:22 AM

...

What greyish protein layer? 

You've gotta know what I'm talking about, right?  The grayish layer of gooey stuff on top of the grains after you drain them?  About the consistency of runny egg whites?  Much more noticeable when you use higher protein grist like 6-row or wheat?

 

You know, thinking about this, it might be a batch sparge phenomena.  If crushing the malt produces dust that's made of starch and protein, and the starch converts leaving the protein behind.  If I'm batch sparging, I'm stirring everything up - twice - giving the powdery stuff the opportunity to get to the top and form that layer.  But fly and no-spargers might just have that stuff intermixed with the rest of the grist.  

 

Who knows?



#14 neddles

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 07:25 AM

I only get that on occasion and more with certain malts. Weyermann floor malted pils produces that goo. Hard to say if I am getting more or less of that with conditioning.

#15 pkrone

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 08:06 AM

I started conditioning earlier this year.   I apply 1.5-2% distilled water by weight using a spray bottle.   I go fairly slowly and mix it a lot by hand.   Then I let it sit for 5-10 minutes.   I actually had to tighten up my gap a little to get a better crush, presumably from the increased pliability of the husk.   No issues with the grains sticking to the rollers when I let it sit for a bit.   I get a much better crush and have no flow issues with my RIMS brewing.    



#16 BrewerGeorge

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 08:09 AM

I started conditioning earlier this year.   I apply 1.5-2% distilled water by weight using a spray bottle.   I go fairly slowly and mix it a lot by hand.   Then I let it sit for 5-10 minutes.   I actually had to tighten up my gap a little to get a better crush, presumably from the increased pliability of the husk.   No issues with the grains sticking to the rollers when I let it sit for a bit.   I get a much better crush and have no flow issues with my RIMS brewing.    

Good to hear, thanks.



#17 Big Nake

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 08:53 AM

Some of this may come down to the mill too. I have the 2-roller Barley Crusher and one roller is active while the other is passive. Some brewers who have the 3-roller Crankenstein or similar have mentioned that you cannot make the mill miss or stall... it just crushes. Period. I have a bit of a love-hate relationship with my mill but it does work.

#18 positiveContact

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 09:16 AM

Some of this may come down to the mill too. I have the 2-roller Barley Crusher and one roller is active while the other is passive. Some brewers who have the 3-roller Crankenstein or similar have mentioned that you cannot make the mill miss or stall... it just crushes. Period. I have a bit of a love-hate relationship with my mill but it does work.

 

I think I'd start applying a set amount of water per pound of malt and see where that gets you.  by all accounts conditioning your grain should make it feed through BETTER than before and you should be able to tighten the gap on your mill even.



#19 denny

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 09:39 AM

Nope.  Tried it for a while and it made absolutely no difference in the beer or ease of making it.



#20 positiveContact

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 09:59 AM

Nope.  Tried it for a while and it made absolutely no difference in the beer or ease of making it.

 

so worst case it does nothing :P

 

the proponents of doing it, if I remember correctly, were saying you could tighten up your mill b/c the husks wouldn't shred as easily.




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