26 replies to this topic

[Big Nake]

I mentioned this in another thread. There used to be various outcomes with a thicker mash or thinner mash and there used to be equations like 1.25 qts per pound of grain or whatever. I typically use around 10 pounds of grain in my beers and I typically mash with 5 gallons of water so I guess that makes me 2qts of water per pound of grain. Then I sparge with about 2.5 gallons (down from 3 with the 30-minute boils). So have all mash thickness rules flown out the window? Could I technically mash with ALL 7½ gallons of water and forget the sparge? Is the only downside a lower efficiency? Is there any other part of this worth mentioning? Does anyone do a no-sparge? What do the BIABers do with a sparge?

[MyaCullen]

I mentioned this in another thread. There used to be various outcomes with a thicker mash or thinner mash and there used to be equations like 1.25 qts per pound of grain or whatever. I typically use around 10 pounds of grain in my beers and I typically mash with 5 gallons of water so I guess that makes me 2qts of water per pound of grain. Then I sparge with about 2.5 gallons (down from 3 with the 30-minute boils). So have all mash thickness rules flown out the window? Could I technically mash with ALL 7½ gallons of water and forget the sparge? Is the only downside a lower efficiency? Is there any other part of this worth mentioning? Does anyone do a no-sparge? What do the BIABers do with a sparge?

yes you can do a "no sparge" beer if you have sufficient room in your tun

[Big Nake]

yes you can do a "no sparge" beer if you have sufficient room in your tun

I have enough room for an extra 2½ gallons... no problem. Wasn't there something about thick mashes being more efficient and having a better yield or something? I don't know if this is one of those long-held beliefs that someone eventually found to be untrue or whatever but if I could skip my sparge I would shave even more time off of my brewday. The 30m boil + the no-sparge could really be a game-changer.

[HVB]

I do BIAB or No Sparge all the time these days.  I "mash" in with my full pre-boil amount plus absorption.  I have had better efficiency since I went this way. 

[neddles]

I have enough room for an extra 2½ gallons... no problem. Wasn't there something about thick mashes being more efficient and having a better yield or something? I don't know if this is one of those long-held beliefs that someone eventually found to be untrue or whatever but if I could skip my sparge I would shave even more time off of my brewday. The 30m boil + the no-sparge could really be a game-changer.

If you have the tun space there's no reason not to AFAIK. I no sparge BIAB on every batch.

[denny]

I have enough room for an extra 2½ gallons... no problem. Wasn't there something about thick mashes being more efficient and having a better yield or something? I don't know if this is one of those long-held beliefs that someone eventually found to be untrue or whatever but if I could skip my sparge I would shave even more time off of my brewday. The 30m boil + the no-sparge could really be a game-changer

 

My experience is that I get better efficiency with thinner mashes.  You certainly can skip the sparge as long as you account for the pH effect of the added mash water.

[HVB]

My experience is that I get better efficiency with thinner mashes.  You certainly can skip the sparge as long as you account for the pH effect of the added mash water.

 And that should be easy with Bru'n Water

[Big Nake]

My experience is that I get better efficiency with thinner mashes.  You certainly can skip the sparge as long as you account for the pH effect of the added mash water.

Yeah, good point. I would use the amount I typically use in the mash (3-4 ml) and the amount I normally use in the sparge (about 2ml) and just adjust from there. So how much water are you guys determining you need for a typically 5 gallon batch of 5% (or so) beer if you do not sparge? I have been using about 7.5 gallons with at least a gallon going to absorption and then some amount of evap although that is less now because of the 30m boil. I may go with 7 gallons total. I have a Munich dunkel scheduled for Saturday morning and I might do this. A little more noodling with this makes me realize that my mash kettle is only 5 gallons so I would have to use 5 gallons in that kettle and then use another 3-gallon kettle that I have and heat them at the same time and then drop them both into the MT with the grains at the same time. I'll make my mineral additions to the large kettle as I do now, add the acid there and also to the smaller kettle and it should all come out pretty close to the way I've been doing it. Could be another time- and energy-saving step. WOOT!

[Bklmt2000]

I use a ratio of 1.5 quarts of water for every pound of grist. 

 

Done this for many years; works well for me.

[Big Nake]

I use a ratio of 1.5 quarts of water for every pound of grist. 
 
Done this for many years; works well for me.

So you do a sparge?

[Bklmt2000]

So you do a sparge?

 

Roger-dodger.  Whatever I need to hit my pre-boil volume.

[Big Nake]

On one hand, I have some of these deeply-held beliefs and I continue to do them under the guise of "it has always worked so why feck with it?" but that kind of thinking has been challenged HARD over the past few years with a lot of these newer processes. I will have to consider some things before I go with a no-sparge though. It appears that I can do everything but I will have to heat my strike water in two separate kettles which is not a big deal but I want to get that straight in my head first. I had a concert last night, a football game tonight, a concert again tomorrow night and a birthday party for my FIL on Sunday so timing is tight and there is other stuff to do. I might push it off until the next brewday so I can think about it first.

[BrewerGeorge]

Can't you heat strike water in your boil kettle?

[Big Nake]

Can't you heat strike water in your boil kettle?

I could. That's one reason I want to noodle with it. I typically heat my strike water in the kitchen. The boil kettle is larger so I would be heating the water outside on the propane burner. I don't mind that necessarily but in the winter that might be a PITA. I don't know what would be better... heating all of it in one kettle in the garage or in two separate kettles in the kitchen.

[MyaCullen]

I could. That's one reason I want to noodle with it. I typically heat my strike water in the kitchen. The boil kettle is larger so I would be heating the water outside on the propane burner. I don't mind that necessarily but in the winter that might be a PITA. I don't know what would be better... heating all of it in one kettle in the garage or in two separate kettles in the kitchen.

I heat all my water in one secondary propane fired keggle

[BlKtRe]

On one hand, I have some of these deeply-held beliefs and I continue to do them under the guise of "it has always worked so why feck with it?" but that kind of thinking has been challenged HARD over the past few years with a lot of these newer processes. I will have to consider some things before I go with a no-sparge though. It appears that I can do everything but I will have to heat my strike water in two separate kettles which is not a big deal but I want to get that straight in my head first. I had a concert last night, a football game tonight, a concert again tomorrow night and a birthday party for my FIL on Sunday so timing is tight and there is other stuff to do. I might push it off until the next brewday so I can think about it first.

 

I'm in this way of thinking. I mash thin because I recirc the entire mash time through my RIMS. I prefer to fly sparge and continually hit 80% on 60 min mashes which is fine by me. I've got other things to do on brewday, so waiting on the sparge to finish is no big deal. I'm boiling at the end of sparging so If I batch sparged or no sparged Id still have to wait for the wort to come to boil anyways so for me if it works why change it? 

Edited by BlKtRe, 26 August 2017 - 08:18 AM.

[Big Nake]

I'm in this way of thinking. I mash thin because I recirc the entire mash time through my RIMS. I prefer to fly sparge and continually hit 80% on 60 min mashes which is fine by me. I've got other things to do on brewday, so waiting on the sparge to finish is no big deal. I'm boiling at the end of sparging so If I batch sparged or no sparged Id still have to wait for the wort to come to boil anyways so for me if it works why change it?

Agreed. A reminder that all of us use different processes and equipment and the "new thing" may not apply to everyone. Also, I want to be clear: Any new concepts that save time, money and energy but do not deliver the same high quality beer will not be accepted... by me anyway. I have no desire to adopt new concepts that will detract from the quality of the beer. When I started the 30m boils I was acutely aware that my beers could suffer and I was sampling those beers to make sure I didn't see a dip in quality. So far so good.

[Bklmt2000]

I'm boiling at the end of sparging so If I batch sparged or no sparged Id still have to wait for the wort to come to boil anyways so for me if it works why change it? 

 

A data point to consider: I batch sparge, and I start heating my first runnings while I mix the sparge water into the mash, let it sit a few minutes, and vorlauf.

 

By the time I finish draining the 2nd runnings into the kettle, I'm nearly at boiling, as opposed to if I collected my 1st + 2nd runnings, and then started to heat the entire thing.

 

But, as you said, whatever works for you and your system is what matters above all else.

[pkrone]

I switched to full volume mashing when I started doing the LoDo thing last year.   Works good now, but did require some tweaking with my system.   Still working on getting back to the completely repeatable efficiency I had before, but I'm getting there.    The main thing is:  the beer is better. 

[BlKtRe]

A data point to consider: I batch sparge, and I start heating my first runnings while I mix the sparge water into the mash, let it sit a few minutes, and vorlauf.

 

By the time I finish draining the 2nd runnings into the kettle, I'm nearly at boiling, as opposed to if I collected my 1st + 2nd runnings, and then started to heat the entire thing.

 

But, as you said, whatever works for you and your system is what matters above all else.

 

When I tried batch sparging a few times I also hit the heat on the first runnings but still had to wait for the boil on both runnings. I never could be at boil as soon as the 2nd runnings were in the kettle. I think a 5g batch this time is pretty short compared to 10g+ batches like I do. I do know this, now I'm brewing on an all electric 220v 50amp rig my times are even shorter to reach all of my desired temps.