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New Tech: Yeast Starters


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#21 positiveContact

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Posted 21 August 2017 - 04:21 AM

or even buying 2 packs for higher gravs. Its just easier honestly. 

 

tough to beat active yeast though.



#22 Poptop

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Posted 21 August 2017 - 12:58 PM

If I'm brewing Saturday or Sunday, I typically make my DME wort Monday/Tuesday, cover and chill. On Tuesday/Wednesday I pitch my yeast and throw it on the stir plate. 9 outta 10 times I have an active pile of fresh yeast Thursday/Friday. If it takes longer than that, it may push a Saturday brew day into Sunday. If Sunday's no good then the session pushes a week. All this is no biggie to me but may not be your bag...


I just can't see buying to bags or viles of liquid yeast on or around $14.

#23 MyaCullen

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Posted 21 August 2017 - 02:47 PM

If I'm brewing Saturday or Sunday, I typically make my DME wort Monday/Tuesday, cover and chill. On Tuesday/Wednesday I pitch my yeast and throw it on the stir plate. 9 outta 10 times I have an active pile of fresh yeast Thursday/Friday. If it takes longer than that, it may push a Saturday brew day into Sunday. If Sunday's no good then the session pushes a week. All this is no biggie to me but may not be your bag...


I just can't see buying to bags or viles of liquid yeast on or around $14.

each??????????



#24 Big Nake

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Posted 21 August 2017 - 07:58 PM

I've been away from the board a little but have a couple of comments.

I have made smaller starters for lager yeast strains where I did ½ cup of DME and 650ml of water and not use a stirplate... just shake it occasionally and then pitched the whole thing when it was active. Lagers came out well. Many people told me my starters were woefully small but it worked. I then went to about 7 ounces of DME and 2L of water on the stirplate. These are loosely covered with foil, not an airlock because many people said to allow the starter on the stirplate to draw in oxygen. For some of those I decanted SOME of the wort but I didn't want to throw yeast cells out so I didn't decant much and in some cases I pitched the entire 2L starter. I have also split the difference and went with about 4.5 ounces of DME in a 1.5L starter on the stirplate. All of these methods worked well. If I'm using a Wyeast pack for an ale, I don't even bother making a starter... I smack it, wait for it to swell hard and pitch it into well-oxygenated wort. If the ale yeast is White Labs or Omega, I would make a small starter. I only make 5 gallon batches.

#25 Poptop

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Posted 22 August 2017 - 05:49 AM

each??????????


4 - 2. To me that sinks too much into a batch I guess.

#26 matt6150

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Posted 22 August 2017 - 06:22 AM

So what's the reasoning of such a large container? Just to have that much oxygen available? Because I know a 2L starter in a 10L container is not going to need that much room.

#27 HVB

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Posted 22 August 2017 - 06:42 AM

So what's the reasoning of such a large container? Just to have that much oxygen available? Because I know a 2L starter in a 10L container is not going to need that much room.

Yes, if my memory is correct it was to have the correct amount of oxygen available.  There were some loooong threads on the AHA forums about this topic.



#28 Big Nake

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Posted 22 August 2017 - 06:50 AM

I have always hit my starters with a bit of O2 from a canister too and it has always seemed to help. For awhile there many people were saying that it was not necessary or didn't make any difference. I still do it.

#29 BrewerGeorge

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Posted 24 August 2017 - 01:02 PM

Changing the thread title slightly to conform with our "New Tech:" model for these types of threads.



#30 Big Nake

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Posted 24 August 2017 - 01:45 PM

Changing the thread title slightly to conform with our "New Tech:" model for these types of threads.

Is that the method that we're going with? Any thread consisting of some of these new ideas should start with New Tech:?

#31 neddles

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Posted 24 August 2017 - 01:55 PM

Is that the method that we're going with? Any thread consisting of some of these new ideas should start with New Tech:?

An SNS starter is kind of a return to old tech, or maybe older methods at least. One knowledgeable guy just decided to standardize the process and give it a new name.



#32 BrewerGeorge

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Posted 24 August 2017 - 01:59 PM

Is that the method that we're going with? Any thread consisting of some of these new ideas should start with New Tech:?

Yes, for the short term.  For New Techniques.

 

I want to be able to search them with Google, and tags won't let us do that.



#33 gnef

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Posted 24 August 2017 - 04:54 PM

For those concerned about time to make a starter, canning it beforehand as a second runnings from a big beer is pretty convenient, and then it is really simple, quick, and easy to do starters.

 

I have starter wort canned from years ago now, and I just pop the top, add to a sanitized erlenmyer flask, add the yeast, add stir bar, cover with foil, and then put on the stir plate. I don't know if it even takes 10 minutes start to finish.



#34 Big Nake

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Posted 25 August 2017 - 06:21 AM

I keep thinking that we'll eventually learn that the giant starters of yesterday and the bumping up of starters was not necessary. What ever happened to making a 1L, building it up to a 2L, etc? I have never done that. Ever. It seems like yeast health is more important (and yeast activity) as opposed to cell count as was mentioned earlier. Also, I feel like there was a timeframe in there where people were saying that adding O2 to a starter or even a primary wasn't all that important. What's the latest on that? I do add some O2 to a starter and always to my primary. Understand that I'm talking lagers here and that I'm also making 5 gallons (always) and that most of my beers clock in around 5%. If someone were building up or making a giant starter for 10 gallons of 7% lager, I can understand.

#35 matt6150

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Posted 25 August 2017 - 06:50 AM

Good question on the O2 Ken. Currently I still add O2 to the primary if I am using liquid yeast, none if dry. Do I need to? Not sure. But I don't think it's hurting. I do think it helps kick off fermentation faster though.

#36 Big Nake

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Posted 25 August 2017 - 06:57 AM

Good question on the O2 Ken. Currently I still add O2 to the primary if I am using liquid yeast, none if dry. Do I need to? Not sure. But I don't think it's hurting. I do think it helps kick off fermentation faster though.

I think it helps too. I always heard it as "yeast needs what we need... food, the correct temperatures, oxygen, etc." so I have always done it. But when you say "I don't think it's hurting"... that's the type of language that suggests that we accept things as brewers and say, "I was told to [do this] so that's what I do!". :D It's the type of thing that brings on Exbeeriments! :lol:

#37 denny

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Posted 25 August 2017 - 09:26 AM

An SNS starter is kind of a return to old tech, or maybe older methods at least. One knowledgeable guy just decided to standardize the process and give it a new name.

 

THIS^^^^^


For those concerned about time to make a starter, canning it beforehand as a second runnings from a big beer is pretty convenient, and then it is really simple, quick, and easy to do starters.

 

I have starter wort canned from years ago now, and I just pop the top, add to a sanitized erlenmyer flask, add the yeast, add stir bar, cover with foil, and then put on the stir plate. I don't know if it even takes 10 minutes start to finish.

 

As long as you pressure can, great.  If not, dangerous.


I keep thinking that we'll eventually learn that the giant starters of yesterday and the bumping up of starters was not necessary. What ever happened to making a 1L, building it up to a 2L, etc? I have never done that. Ever. It seems like yeast health is more important (and yeast activity) as opposed to cell count as was mentioned earlier. Also, I feel like there was a timeframe in there where people were saying that adding O2 to a starter or even a primary wasn't all that important. What's the latest on that? I do add some O2 to a starter and always to my primary. Understand that I'm talking lagers here and that I'm also making 5 gallons (always) and that most of my beers clock in around 5%. If someone were building up or making a giant starter for 10 gallons of 7% lager, I can understand.

 

I never add O2 to either starters or primary.  I've stopped even aerating the primary in favor of pitching an adequate amount of healthy yeast.  The purpose of aeration/oxygenation is to let the yeast synthesize sterols to aid budding.  If you pitch enough yeast, that becomes not an issue.



#38 HVB

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Posted 25 August 2017 - 09:39 AM


 

I never add O2 to either starters or primary.  I've stopped even aerating the primary in favor of pitching an adequate amount of healthy yeast.  The purpose of aeration/oxygenation is to let the yeast synthesize sterols to aid budding.  If you pitch enough yeast, that becomes not an issue.

 

I have not used O2 in a long time myself.  I ran out and never noticed any issues with the beers I made in that time so I just removed that part of my process.



#39 gnef

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Posted 27 August 2017 - 05:07 PM

THIS^^^^^


 

As long as you pressure can, great.  If not, dangerous.


 

I never add O2 to either starters or primary.  I've stopped even aerating the primary in favor of pitching an adequate amount of healthy yeast.  The purpose of aeration/oxygenation is to let the yeast synthesize sterols to aid budding.  If you pitch enough yeast, that becomes not an issue.

Yes, I should've specified pressure canning. I do the standard 15 psi for 15 minutes, and I've had good results.

 

As far as O2, I don't add pure O2 anymore to anything. I always found it cumbersome, and like many of you, I haven't noticed a difference. I will say that I still use my stirplate for starters though, as that doesn't really add much complexity to the process.



#40 matt6150

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Posted 28 August 2017 - 07:34 AM

I did my first SNS starter over the weekend. It is a little harder to time right so you pitch at high krausen. Mine was past that and looked fairly fermented out. I could have probably gotten away with just making the starter first thing in the morning. I made it about 24 hrs before I pitched.


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