40 replies to this topic

[Breakpoint]

I'm just getting back into brewing after having 3 kids that put some major brakes on my brewing. Also, the availability of a huge variety of beers kept a little uninterested in breaking everything out, cleaning it, and then cranking out some brews. Well, like George, I got inspired while I was on vacation and Cali and drinking Pliny, Union Jack, and all the other great beers out there. I broke everything out and had a great brew session yesterday with a Zombie Dust-inspired brew.

 

Anyway, Ken's "New Processes" thread tweak my interest in getting some more knowledge on some of these new ideas. In particular, I'm curious about yeast starters. I've been staying around reading the board a little bit through my break and see that now shaking may be better than stirring yeast starters. I've also read the drauflassen thread and may use that approach when I do a lager.

 

For this past brew, I went with my previous ways of making a starter with some DME (250g:2.5L), then boiling it for 5 minutes and crash cooling it in the sink, pitch, sit it on the stir plate at a low spin for 24 hours, then cold crash, decant and pitch.

 

What am I missing? What's the new process? 

 

 

[MyaCullen]

I'm just getting back into brewing after having 3 kids that put some major brakes on my brewing. Also, the availability of a huge variety of beers kept a little uninterested in breaking everything out, cleaning it, and then cranking out some brews. Well, like George, I got inspired while I was on vacation and Cali and drinking Pliny, Union Jack, and all the other great beers out there. I broke everything out and had a great brew session yesterday with a Zombie Dust-inspired brew.

 

Anyway, Ken's "New Processes" thread tweak my interest in getting some more knowledge on some of these new ideas. In particular, I'm curious about yeast starters. I've been staying around reading the board a little bit through my break and see that now shaking may be better than stirring yeast starters. I've also read the drauflassen thread and may use that approach when I do a lager.

 

For this past brew, I went with my previous ways of making a starter with some DME (250g:2.5L), then boiling it for 5 minutes and crash cooling it in the sink, pitch, sit it on the stir plate at a low spin for 24 hours, then cold crash, decant and pitch.

 

What am I missing? What's the new process? 

pitching a smaller starter, shaken, not stirred, at high krausen, the whole thing, not decanted

[CaptRon]

I did a starter for the first time a couple of weeks ago and I'm not sure it was worth the extra effort over just pitching a wyeast smack pack. I'll give a few more chances to really form my opinion though.

[HVB]

pitching a smaller starter, shaken, not stirred, at high krausen, the whole thing, not decanted

+1

[Breakpoint]

pitching a smaller starter, shaken, not stirred, at high krausen, the whole thing, not decanted

How small? I thought the general consensus was that 2L was minimum otherwise you would get no growth. is this still dependent on gravity? My beer this weekend was 1.066 so a tube of WL013 would've been severely underpitching it and I didn't hit the proper pitch rate according to the calculators until I made a 2.5L starter. Are we not worried about underpitching in homebrewing anymore because we get enough cells in such a short amount of time for the volume of beer we're brewing?

[Bklmt2000]

I use a ratio of 100g DME/1 L of water.  I usually make starters in the 1-1.5 L range, and they sit on the stirplate for 2-3 days, then get a 2-3 crash cool in the lager fridge before brewday.

 

So, if i'm making a starter, i usually make it a week ahead of brewday, which also helps if brewday gets moved back a day or two, should life get in the way (as it tends to do).

 

Has worked well for me for a good 10 years and counting.

[neddles]

pitching a smaller starter, shaken, not stirred, at high krausen, the whole thing, not decanted

 

How small? I thought the general consensus was that 2L was minimum otherwise you would get no growth. is this still dependent on gravity? My beer this weekend was 1.066 so a tube of WL013 would've been severely underpitching it and I didn't hit the proper pitch rate according to the calculators until I made a 2.5L starter. Are we not worried about underpitching in homebrewing anymore because we get enough cells in such a short amount of time for the volume of beer we're brewing?

Pitch into a 1L starter (100g dme and water to make 1L, 1.037) in a vessel at least 4x the size of the starter. Shake like hell for 2 minutes, pitch the yeast, and put an air lock on it. Pitch at high krausen. High krausen is a bit subjective here as there is not usually an obvious krausen in a fermentation that small IME. Pitch it when very active. Pitch the whole thing. The idea is that cell counts aren't particularly important when the yeast you are pitching is already active/highly viable. Expect the high krausen/very active time to vary with the freshness of the yeast you put into it. Obviously a fresh pack will take off and get active quickly whereas an older pack or older saved yeast will take a while longer.

 

ETA: I know that Drez77 and Denny both have used this method (only a 1L starter) successfully in lagers. (while pitching the room temperature starter into cold wort too IIRC) I have yet to try it but with a little luck that will happen soon. 

Edited by neddles, 14 August 2017 - 09:12 PM.

[positiveContact]

Yeast activity and health are more important than cell count. Those little yeasties multiple pretty fast.

[HVB]

ETA: I know that Drez77 and Denny both have used this method (only a 1L starter) successfully in lagers. (while pitching the room temperature starter into cold wort too IIRC) I have yet to try it but with a little luck that will happen soon. 

I have done this for lagers and had success doing it.  I will say that I was apprehensive at first because it does go against most of what homebrewers have been "taught" but it has worked great for me.

[matt6150]

So a 1L shaken starter as neddles described is good for what? A 5gal batch of any OG? What about a 10gal beer with let's say a OG of 1.067?

[HVB]

So a 1L shaken starter as neddles described is good for what? A 5gal batch of any OG? What about a 10gal beer with let's say a OG of 1.067?

Yes 5g.  for 10g make it 2L in a 10L vessel although I think Pickle_rick does his in a old carboy ( better bottle maybe) so size may not really matter.

 

it really took a while for me to buy in but I have not had any underattenuated beer or beer that I though was "off" because of the yeast.

[Breakpoint]

Cool. Thanks for the info. So, 1L starter in 4L flask, shaken not stirred, pitched at high krausen, no matter what the OG.

I'll try this on my next batch.

[matt6150]

Yes 5g. for 10g make it 2L in a 10L vessel although I think Pickle_rick does his in a old carboy ( better bottle maybe) so size may not really matter.

it really took a while for me to buy in but I have not had any underattenuated beer or beer that I though was "off" because of the yeast.

Alright I'll give it a go. I need to find a vessel. My next beer will be a porter with 1450, should be a good test.

[denny]

httpss://www.experimentalbrew.com/blogs/denny/old-dognew-tricks

Alright I'll give it a go. I need to find a vessel. My next beer will be a porter with 1450, should be a good test.

 

If you like, I can post the porter recipe I make with 1450.

Cool. Thanks for the info. So, 1L starter in 4L flask, shaken not stirred, pitched at high krausen, no matter what the OG.

I'll try this on my next batch.

 

I use a gal. glass apple juice jug instead of a flask.

[matt6150]

httpss://www.experimentalbrew.com/blogs/denny/old-dognew-tricks


If you like, I can post the porter recipe I make with 1450.


I use a gal. glass apple juice jug instead of a flask.

The Nick Danger recipe? I do have that one recorded. My recipe is close but don't have everything. Trying some other new to me grains.

[MyaCullen]

httpss://www.experimentalbrew.com/blogs/denny/old-dognew-tricks

 

If you like, I can post the porter recipe I make with 1450.

 

I use a gal. glass apple juice jug instead of a flask.

same

[denny]

The Nick Danger recipe? I do have that one recorded. My recipe is close but don't have everything. Trying some other new to me grains.

 

Yep

[Poptop]

I use a gal. glass apple juice jug instead of a flask.

I use a gallon glass jug formerly from Mt. Olive Sliced Jalapenos. That's right, I like to spice things up a bit.

[CarlosM]

I did a starter for the first time a couple of weeks ago and I'm not sure it was worth the extra effort over just pitching a wyeast smack pack. I'll give a few more chances to really form my opinion though.

or even buying 2 packs for higher gravs. Its just easier honestly. 

[HVB]

Starter takes me maybe 30 minutes and about 5 of that is active time.