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hoppy wheat beers - any problems?


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#1 pickle_rick

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Posted 13 June 2017 - 05:11 AM

I was thinking of making a wheat beer with lots of hops.  basically a really hoppy pale ale where 1/3-1/2 of the malt is wheat.  I know it will be pretty cloudy for a while which is fine.  but when the haze from the wheat eventually drops out will it take the hop goodness with it?  any issues like that or something else I'm not aware of?


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#2 drez77

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Posted 13 June 2017 - 06:01 AM

Gumball head clone with citra, amarillo .. or any hop really.

 

Here is what I tend to do.

 

49% Two Row

49% Wheat

2% caravienne

 

For 5g I use

22g Citra @ 30

28g Citra @ 5

28g Citra @ WP

56g Citra DH - this could be less just my preference

Water

Ca - 68

SO4 0 78

Cl- 64

pH ~5.3

 

S-05 and mash at 151

 

 

I am planning one myself with a bit of a change. I will use 1# of corn starch instead of some of the wheat. I think I am going with El Dorado and Chinook for the hops as well.


Edited by drez77, 13 June 2017 - 06:08 AM.

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#3 Bklmt2000

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Posted 13 June 2017 - 06:08 AM

I was thinking of making a wheat beer with lots of hops.  basically a really hoppy pale ale where 1/3-1/2 of the malt is wheat.  I know it will be pretty cloudy for a while which is fine.  but when the haze from the wheat eventually drops out will it take the hop goodness with it?  any issues like that or something else I'm not aware of?

 

My experience with wheats is, the yeast seems to be the main factor in determining how cloudy the beer is, and for how long.

 

The German wheat i've made w/ 3068 tend to stay hazier, and hazier longer, than the Am. wheats I make w/ US-05, which sometimes look as clear as my regular ales/lagers.

 

I'd make whatever hoppy pale ale/IPA you would normally make with all/mostly-all barley, and just replace some of the 2-row w/ wheat malt.


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#4 ER Pemberton

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Posted 13 June 2017 - 06:25 AM

Practically every pale ale I make is about 48% pale ale malt, 48% wheat and the rest is CaraVienne or CaraRuby. I haven't been dry-hopping them lately but even when I do I still get crystal clear beer. I'm not sure I have ever equated wheat with cloudiness. Drez, I seem to remember some pale, hoppy wheat beers that you made with Simcoe or Nelson, etc. that were very clear.

#5 drez77

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Posted 13 June 2017 - 06:35 AM

Practically every pale ale I make is about 48% pale ale malt, 48% wheat and the rest is CaraVienne or CaraRuby. I haven't been dry-hopping them lately but even when I do I still get crystal clear beer. I'm not sure I have ever equated wheat with cloudiness. Drez, I seem to remember some pale, hoppy wheat beers that you made with Simcoe or Nelson, etc. that were very clear.

Here is the beer I posted above, Citra Wheat.  I think it is clear and it makes me thirsty.  I have done this same grainbill with Nelson, Mosaic and most likely a few others. Fast turn around beer and tasty!

10329211_10152991555429657_2273435939292


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#6 ER Pemberton

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Posted 13 June 2017 - 06:59 AM

Oh yeah, I remember that one. Nice.

There is a local craft beer made at a brewery here and I know the head brewer. I asked him for the recipe and the grist was similar... pale ale malt and wheat in equal parts and a smidge of something for color like caravienne or cararuby. Turns out that's a grist for many beers (as Drez mentioned, Gumballhead is one). The thinking was that the wheat would lower the maltiness a little bit which may work nicely for a crisp, hoppy warm-weather beer. I might be more concerned about runoff issues than I would be about cloudiness but even then... my system seems to be fine with it and I just made a beer like this on Sunday.

The grist for this beer was half wheat too...

16kxuhc.jpg

#7 drez77

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Posted 13 June 2017 - 07:07 AM

Here is what I am thinking I may try.  I realize more hops in here than many may use but hey .. that is how I roll :)

 

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#8 pickle_rick

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Posted 13 June 2017 - 07:17 AM

My experience with wheats is, the yeast seems to be the main factor in determining how cloudy the beer is, and for how long.

 

The German wheat i've made w/ 3068 tend to stay hazier, and hazier longer, than the Am. wheats I make w/ US-05, which sometimes look as clear as my regular ales/lagers.

 

I'd make whatever hoppy pale ale/IPA you would normally make with all/mostly-all barley, and just replace some of the 2-row w/ wheat malt.

 

that may be true.  I don't think I've made a wheat beer that wasn't 3068 :scratch:

 

Practically every pale ale I make is about 48% pale ale malt, 48% wheat and the rest is CaraVienne or CaraRuby. I haven't been dry-hopping them lately but even when I do I still get crystal clear beer. I'm not sure I have ever equated wheat with cloudiness. Drez, I seem to remember some pale, hoppy wheat beers that you made with Simcoe or Nelson, etc. that were very clear.

 

why do you use so much wheat in your pale ales all the time?


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#9 ER Pemberton

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Posted 13 June 2017 - 07:26 AM

why do you use so much wheat in your pale ales all the time?

I really like the combination. When I first heard it I was surprised by the look of it because I wouldn't have envisioned that. Also, it's not ALL THE TIME... but it's common here. I will make a pale ale with mostly Rahr Pale Ale malt when I want a deeper beer with a little more oomph. If I make a hoppy blonde ale, there is usually a good 30-40% wheat in there as well.

#10 pickle_rick

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Posted 13 June 2017 - 08:15 AM

I really like the combination. When I first heard it I was surprised by the look of it because I wouldn't have envisioned that. Also, it's not ALL THE TIME... but it's common here. I will make a pale ale with mostly Rahr Pale Ale malt when I want a deeper beer with a little more oomph. If I make a hoppy blonde ale, there is usually a good 30-40% wheat in there as well.

 

I have 10lbs of optic malt I was thinking of using in this beer (10 gals).  seems like that could be a good combo with the wheat.


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#11 ER Pemberton

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Posted 13 June 2017 - 08:21 AM

I don't pretend to be an expert on all of the various grains... there are too many. If I pick up something like Rahr 2-row or maybe something like this Patagonia Extra Pale malt, Canada Malting, Great Western, etc. then I know that the malt may not have as much depth to it and I might use a higher percentage of it. If I have GP, MO or Rahr Pale Ale malt (which I am a huge fan of), then I might use more wheat. I realized how much depth the RPA malt has when I went to make a blonde ale where all of the base malt was RPA... it had A LOT of depth to it. It was a very deep and malty beer. So a blonde or crisp pale ale might use the RPA and then get cut with something less deep.

#12 pickle_rick

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Posted 13 June 2017 - 08:23 AM

I don't pretend to be an expert on all of the various grains... there are too many. If I pick up something like Rahr 2-row or maybe something like this Patagonia Extra Pale malt, Canada Malting, Great Western, etc. then I know that the malt may not have as much depth to it and I might use a higher percentage of it. If I have GP, MO or Rahr Pale Ale malt (which I am a huge fan of), then I might use more wheat. I realized how much depth the RPA malt has when I went to make a blonde ale where all of the base malt was RPA... it had A LOT of depth to it. It was a very deep and malty beer. So a blonde or crisp pale ale might use the RPA and then get cut with something less deep.

 

optic is supposed to be less intense than MO.  I've never used optic before though.


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#13 drez77

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Posted 13 June 2017 - 08:26 AM

optic is supposed to be less intense than MO.  I've never used optic before though.

I think it will be fine.  I had a sack of it once and it was just like plain old 2-row to me.


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#14 ER Pemberton

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Posted 13 June 2017 - 08:45 AM

I think it will be fine.  I had a sack of it once and it was just like plain old 2-row to me.

So maybe use more of it. I do like a relatively dry and crisp beer especially in the summer so I try to look at all of the variables that will help... lower mash temp, a good balanced grist, careful with low-attenuating yeast strains, a balanced water profile, etc.

#15 pickle_rick

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Posted 14 June 2017 - 12:47 PM

I think I'll try to brew something up this Friday.

 

for hops I'm thinking a little bit of mt. hood (just to use some up), a healthy dose of mosaic, citra and Amarillo.

 

I'll be fermenting with the dreaded US-05 ;)


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#16 ER Pemberton

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Posted 14 June 2017 - 12:50 PM

I'll be fermenting with the dreaded US-05 ;)

:frantic:



#17 pickle_rick

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Posted 15 June 2017 - 06:36 AM

it's funny - last night I got started on working on this recipe and I threw in my 10lbs of optic, the 8.5ish lbs of wheat and then 1lb of caravienne.  then I looked at drez's recipe.  not too far off.  :lol:

 

so anyway.....

 

I'll be doing something different for the hops.  what goes well with mt. hood?  citra?  cent? Chinook?  Columbus?  mosaic?


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#18 drez77

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Posted 15 June 2017 - 06:43 AM

So you are sure you want to use Mt. Hood here?  Not just Citra and Mosaic :)


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#19 pickle_rick

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Posted 15 June 2017 - 06:51 AM

So you are sure you want to use Mt. Hood here?  Not just Citra and Mosaic :)

 

fair point :lol:

 

but I need to use some mt hood!!!!  is there a super heavy use mt. hood beer out there I can make after this one?


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#20 drez77

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Posted 15 June 2017 - 06:59 AM

fair point :lol:

 

but I need to use some mt hood!!!!  is there a super heavy use mt. hood beer out there I can make after this one?

Mt. Hood Pilsner?


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