14 replies to this topic

[ScottS]

I was very excited this year, because after 7 years, my apple trees were finally big enough to bear a crop that I could press and ferment. This variety was Golden Russet, an antique variety intended for cider.I had a rough time with the orchard this year. This was the first year that anything bore enough fruit to make it worth tending. So I read up on what spraying needed to happen, and I kept up on it. Unfortunately, I missed one chemical that I needed, and my bumper crop of apricots and plums ended up being decimated by plum curculio. I literally lost the entire crop. The apples, on the other hand, did reasonably well. The fruit was rather ugly, but there was quite a bit of it.I noticed that many of the apples had what looked like mildew on them. I didn't think much of it. I mashed the apples in a food processor, and pressed them in a cheese press. I ended up with a whopping quart and a half of juice. Not much, but it's my first crop! I'm going to run with it.In the past, I've always bought juice, thrown it in a fermenter, and ignored it for a few months. Th wild yeast does it's thing without issues. I've done probably 10-15 batches this way and never had an issue.This time... I checked on it tonight, and there are some nickle-sized green mold colonies growing on the surface of the cider. Not cool. Not cool at all.So now I'm wondering what I need to do differently. I did the absolute minimum amount of spraying, which means they get a shot or two of fungicide and moldicide right at the beginning of the season, during the cool wet spring. Well... we had a cool summer, and a rainy stretch in August. Bad enough that 90% of the tomato crops in the area were destroyed by mold. Given that I wasn't spraying for it at the time, it's entirely possible that the same conditions resulted in mold growing on my apples.Bottom line is that I'm disappointed in my first cider failure, just as I'm disappointed in the failure of my first apricot and plum crop. But I long ago accepted the fact that without the experience of previous generations being handed down, reacquiring all of their knowledge requires much trial and error. I now know how to stop plum curculio, and I have the chemicals in the house to take care of the problem when it inevitably reappears. I now know to watch for mold, though I suspect that when I see it, it'll be too late. So more intelligently, I now know to watch for late season unusually wet weather conditions, that require an unusual spraying schedule.Live and learn.

[ScottS]

CO has trees, right? Go molest those! Leave my trees alone!

[strangebrewer]

CO has trees, right? Go molest those! Leave my trees alone!

All we have are pine trees so you end up smelling like one of those car air fresheners. That and pine bark is awfully rough, tends to flake off leaving evidence. Apple tree bark is smooooooth.Bummer to hear about the moldy cider. I imagine the farms you were getting your cider from before were larger operations and probably very actively spraying for mold and fungi. It was a cool summer here too, I know everybody's tomatoes suffered and most developed black spots of mold. I haven't heard much about the Western Slope apple harvest around here this year. Hopefully it fared well enough to get a good supply of cider to those of us stranded in the front range

[ScottS]

I imagine the farms you were getting your cider from before were larger operations and probably very actively spraying for mold and fungi.

That's what I think too - they are just plain more diligent about it. My bias is always to start with the low chemical method, because it's cheaper, less effort, and safer. That usually means I have a failure or two before figuring out what the minimum acceptable management technique is.

[ScottS]

I suppose I could just let it go, that hadn't really occurred to me. Might as well, I've got nothing to lose at this point.

[Wayne B]

If it is truly mold, you will have the most vile creation ever. I know; this has happened to me. You might be able to save what's there IF (note the big IF), you rack from under the mold so that none of the macroscopic colonies come along for the ride, you hit it with K-META to kill off any mold spores, and you then pitch a commercial yeast.I'm afraid that if you don't take immediate action to save the batch, it will be a lost cause. Even if you plan on this intervention, sniff and taste the stuff that you racked before doing anything else. It might already be too late.

[ScottS]

It is only a quart and a half - I'd say it is worth the risk. What's it look like now?

Horrible.

[MyaCullen]

Horrible.

mm mold juice...

[dmtaylor]

I tried a wild ferment with mead once. Vomit City. Now I always heat my ciders or meads to around 170 F for 15 minutes to kill most of the nasties, and haven't had a problem since. And it still has good flavor and aroma. I like to have more control over the beasts fermenting my brews.

[ScottS]

I tried a wild ferment with mead once. Vomit City. Now I always heat my ciders or meads to around 170 F for 15 minutes to kill most of the nasties, and haven't had a problem since. And it still has good flavor and aroma. I like to have more control over the beasts fermenting my brews.

Mead is very different from cider in this respect. Honey doesn't have natural yeasts in it, so a wild ferment happens via whatever was floating around in your kitchen or basement. Apples have natural yeast in their skins, and for whatever reason, this yeast almost always (in my experience) makes for spectacular tasting cider.I will never ever do a cultured cider again. I'd rather risk lost batches.

[BeesNBrews]

That's what I think too - they are just plain more diligent about it. My bias is always to start with the low chemical method, because it's cheaper, less effort, and safer. That usually means I have a failure or two before figuring out what the minimum acceptable management technique is.

More diligent, yes, plus they have a larger selection of more effective sprays to use. The over-the-counter stuff is only marginally effective compared to commercial products. It's not that you can't get it, it is just that it is packaged to use on 100's of acres, costs $$$$$, and will go bad before you ever use all of it.

[BeesNBrews]

mm mold juice...

Mold juice, no; blue cheese, yes.

[MyaCullen]

Mold juice, no; blue cheese, yes.

blehhhhhh, pukes, a littleScotts, I am wondering if the yeasts that are desirable to you are simply not present in the air on your farm, but are prominent at the farms where you usually buy apples?Maybe you can buy leftover pulp from cider pressing, etc.. from known good sources, and spread it around your orchard in the sfall? Start the ball rolling?

[ScottS]

It's not that you can't get it, it is just that it is packaged to use on 100's of acres, costs $$$$$, and will go bad before you ever use all of it.

I'm buying commercial quantities of industrial strength sprays. Nothing else is effective. I've got a 15 year supply.

Scotts, I am wondering if the yeasts that are desirable to you are simply not present in the air on your farm, but are prominent at the farms where you usually buy apples?Maybe you can buy leftover pulp from cider pressing, etc.. from known good sources, and spread it around your orchard in the sfall? Start the ball rolling?

I doubt it. The yeasts that do your fermentation are in the apples themselves, not ambient in the air. I definitely got a fermentation going, it was just contaminated by mold that was clearly visible on the skins of the apples.I really think all I need to do is spray with copper a couple more times over the course of the summer. That knocks down mold and other unicellular beasts. I only sprayed that in the spring, because typically it is only wet enough to encourage mold growth in the spring. This year was unusually cold and damp.

[Promega]

I really think all I need to do is spray with copper a couple more times over the course of the summer. That knocks down mold and other unicellular beasts.

ahhh the good ol' penny in the bottom of your cell culture incubator!